# Rick Warren's Forum Obama & McCain - thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231 "2008-08-16T16:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/81 "2008-08-18T03:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Of course it is. He told one consistent story for 25 years, and then a different one. How can you possibly claim that he didn’t change his story? [/QUOTE] OK, final time. You said he originally said the shackle story took place in May, and then changed it to Christmas, because that’s when the cross story took place. I’m saying that the cross story has **always consistently** taken place several months after the shackle story, which has **always consistently** taken place in, what, May? You claimed he changed the timing of the story. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/82 "2008-08-18T03:37:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Of course it is. He told one consistent story for 25 years, and then a different one. How can you possibly claim that he didn’t change his story? [/QUOTE] **Arizona** was responding to your claim: > [@Lamar](#): > > He also mentions it happened in May of 1969, not the current version of Christmas. which was indeed false, he didn’t change the date of the guard loosening his bonds, he added a second (and I agree, unlikely) story about the same guard drawing a cross several months later. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/83 "2008-08-18T03:39:32Z")
The Christmas story hasn’t always consistently been anything. It didn’t exist at all until '99. I don’t know if he made it up, but I’m dubious, especially since he’s unquestionably changed his Green Bay Packer story. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/84 "2008-08-18T03:44:33Z")
**Arizona** , could you address my last post on page 2? (post #80) ETA: Maybe I’m wrong about something. If so, I want you to correct me. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/85 "2008-08-18T03:53:32Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] That’s why I’d like to see if it’s in McCain’s autobiography.. [/QUOTE] It is in his autobiography _Faith of my Father’s_. But that was published in '99, when he first started adding the part of the story with the cross (indeed I suspect that that’s where he first told the story, but I’m not sure). ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/86 "2008-08-18T03:54:23Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] OK, final time. You said he originally said the shackle story took place in May, and then changed it to Christmas, because that’s when the cross story took place. I’m saying that the cross story has **always consistently** taken place several months after the shackle story, which has **always consistently** taken place in, what, May? You claimed he changed the timing of the story. That’s all. [/QUOTE] If you want to hang your hat on that point, I am happy to concede the argument to you. His fake story has been consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/87 "2008-08-18T03:56:50Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] It is in his autobiography _Faith of my Father’s_. But that was published in '99, when he first started adding the part of the story with the cross (indeed I suspect that that’s where he first told the story, but I’m not sure). [/QUOTE] Oh. I thought that came out many years ago. So much for that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/88 "2008-08-18T05:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] But what are we getting all in an uproar about? It’s not as if he was using the Holocaust and concentration camps or civil rights marches to tell some story that has a deeper metaphorical meaning to him, right? [/QUOTE] As I said earlier, lacking evidence, I neither believe nor disbelieve McCain’s story at this point. I certainly find the tale a little too pat to be absolutely factual. But the swipe you take at Obama above is a bit misplaced isn’t it? The difference between the two (that is, these particular instances of both Obama and McCain telling stories with possibly non-factual bits) isn’t in the “metaphorical meaning to [either of them]” – it’s the _non-metaphorical_ meaning _to the audience_. In Obama’s case, Birkenau or Dachau or whatever…the detail doesn’t change the fundamental story. A similar thing with whatever the gripe was over Obama’s Selma comment. But introducing an NVA guard, at Christmas, drawing a cross on the ground _does_ change the story – in fact, told in front of an evangelical audience, it turns the story into an _allegory_, to be lapped up like pablum. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/89 "2008-08-18T17:19:23Z")
Nothing on the allegations that “cone of silence” Warren talked about did not exist? And that McCain’s camp answered back with some scathing words for Andrea Mitchell (who first broke the story) but was later picked up by the rest of the major news outlets? [Here’s ABC’s political blog on it.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/more-on-the-con.html) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/90 "2008-08-18T17:37:47Z")
Sorry for the double post but. . . The thing that gets me is Warren’s “cone of silence” statement. Why would he say such a thing when he knew full well McCain arrived from 30 minutes to an hour AFTER Obama started his Q&A session. McCain’s campaign manager sent an angry letter requesting a meeting with NBC president to talk about the partisan news reporting-- not mentioning that what Andrea said-- that some Obama people were saying that McCain was not in a cone of silence and that he may have had prior knowledge of the questions-- was quite true. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/91 "2008-08-18T17:44:07Z")
IF it’s true that there was deception on the part of McCain, his staff, Rick Warren, or Rick Warren’s staff, then I hope that becomes part of the public narrative about this campaign and the men who are running. As I said above, I’m skeptical that that will occur. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/92 "2008-08-18T17:53:19Z")
Looks like the times is [joining in](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/18/nyt-backs-up-nbc-mccain-w_n_119476.html) the lack of a cone of silence claim. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/93 "2008-08-18T17:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] If you want to hang your hat on that point, I am happy to concede the argument to you. His fake story has been consistent. [/QUOTE] I could pull a **Dio** here and say “Cite that it’s fake?” and good luck with **that** , but like I said earlier, I don’t know if the story is true. However, let’s not go making more stuff up! It’s a fishy story, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/94 "2008-08-18T18:11:30Z")
I notice the McCain camp is kicking up a lot of dust but that they’re not really denying that McCain got the questions beforehand. We know for a fact that Warren lied. Has he attempted to explain himself yet. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/95 "2008-08-18T18:29:14Z")
[I started a separate thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10109542#post10109542) about the “Cross in the Dirt” story. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/96 "2008-08-18T18:32:47Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] The thing that gets me is Warren’s “cone of silence” statement. Why would he say such a thing when he knew full well McCain arrived from 30 minutes to an hour AFTER Obama started his Q&A session. [/QUOTE] I’m confused about the time line. Didn’t Warren make the “cone of silence” statement at the beginning of Obama’s interview? I thought he didn’t find out that McCain was not on site until afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/97 "2008-08-18T18:40:32Z")
[QUOTE=SparrowHawk] I’m confused about the time line. Didn’t Warren make the “cone of silence” statement at the beginning of Obama’s interview? I thought he didn’t find out that McCain was not on site until afterwards. [/QUOTE] Warren made the ‘cone of silence’ remark to McCain. It was the first question-- how did you like the wall of silence. To which McCain answered, “I was trying to listen through the wall.” Warren has not made any statement about the McCain’s late arrival, although some reports have him “acting surprised” when told of it. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/98 "2008-08-18T18:46:28Z")
If Warren believed that McCain was going to be held in the green room during Obama’s interview, it’s fair that he said that McCain was placed in a cone of silence, and it’s not deceptive on his part. The actual question that it comes down to, and which we can never know for sure (absent a turncoat in McCain’s team), is whether his team was able to inform him ahead of time of the questions he would be asked. It certainly seems unlikely that his staff, knowing that Obama was being questioned, did not take the opportunity to watch/listen in, especially in the privacy of their own car. It’s just a small pissing contest between two vastly different people with vastly different world views. C’mon, November! ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/99 "2008-08-18T18:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I notice the McCain camp is kicking up a lot of dust but that they’re not really denying that McCain got the questions beforehand. We know for a fact that Warren lied. Has he attempted to explain himself yet. [/QUOTE] OK, I’m truly not trying to be snarky here, because now I’m not sure what the debate is about…I thought the accusation was that McCain **might** have heard the questions beforehand, not that he received the questions. [McCain has protested that accusation.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12594.html) In any case, Warren told both men what the topic of conversation were going to be ahead of time, and as had been said several times, Warren seemed to be surprised that McCain wasn’t in the “soundproof room” the entire time, so I’m not exactly sure what the Warren lie is supposed to be… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/100 "2008-08-18T18:59:48Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Warren made the ‘cone of silence’ remark to McCain. It was the first question-- how did you like the wall of silence. To which McCain answered, “I was trying to listen through the wall.” [/QUOTE] Warren first referred to the cone of silence in [his opening remarks](http://www.rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-01.txt), before either man had taken the stage: ```auto 17 ...NOW 18 SENATOR OBAMA IS GOING TO GO FIRST. WE FLIPPED A COIN. 19 AND WE HAVE SAFELY PLACED SENATOR MCCAIN IN A CONE OF 20 SILENCE. ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231.md?page=6)