# ...RickJay, moderation, and transgender people **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 29, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766 "2020-07-29T23:19:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/1 "2020-07-29T23:19:44Z")
> [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/1930): > > Well, that’s your opinion. Transwomen are not “Edge cases.” They are men. Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv is a man. Rachel MacKinnon/Veronica Ivy is a man. [This person is a man](https://www.womenarehuman.com/man-may-win-lawsuit-demanding-to-change-in-locker-room-beside-high-school-girls-says-aclu/), and in over a thousand posts no one has come up with a coherent reason to think otherwise except “words change,” which doesn’t change the underlying concept, which should travel with the word. …in this thread RickJay openly and unapologetically misgenders several individuals, links to a website that explicitly propagates anti-transgender propaganda, and argues that nobody in that thread has come up with a coherent reason why transwomen should be called women. As to the last point: I can think of one reason. It is simply polite and welcoming to do so. Which is why RickJay’s post troubles me. RickJay is a moderator here who has shown in thread-after-thread on transgender issues has never hesitated to misgender, RickJay does it again in this post. > [@Is JK Rowling transphobic?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/37): > > I cannot possibly imagine how someone could think Gregor Murray was a man. > > [https://www.google.com/search?q=gregor+murray+dundee&rlz=1C1CHBF\_enCA700CA700&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=nn1nv3Il0Rhb\_M%3A%2C2H-vv5kavG5TtM%2C\_&vet=1&usg=AI4\_-kTjo3BLsux0suiWwS5lnueYCav2jA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh4MGpj8PmAhWYqp4KHXYnA7QQ9QEwBXoECAoQBg#imgrc=nn1nv3Il0Rhb\_M:](https://www.google.com/search?q=gregor+murray+dundee&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA700CA700&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=nn1nv3Il0Rhb_M%253A%252C2H-vv5kavG5TtM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTjo3BLsux0suiWwS5lnueYCav2jA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh4MGpj8PmAhWYqp4KHXYnA7QQ9QEwBXoECAoQBg#imgrc=nn1nv3Il0Rhb_M:) While the board has made it clear that it will continue to allow debate on issues of identity, the fact that we have a moderator that holds explicitly transphobic positions is problematic for these boards IMHO, and is just another reason why these boards are not a safe place for transgender people. This isn’t a thread asking for a resignation or sanction. What I’m asking for is reassurance that RickJay will not deliberately misgender anyone (ETA members) on these boards, especially in his role as moderator here. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/2 "2020-07-30T02:18:37Z")
Oh, wow. WTF? He’s literally talking about a man who clearly has grown his own beard, and is wearing it proudly to show he’s a man. Anyone looking at him would think he was male. Sure, he has soft features, but that changes nothing, any more than a person with sharp features but who clearly presents as female would be assumed to be a man. “Masculine-looking” women exist, as to “feminine looking” men. And it appears that RickJay himself linked the images. So he’s seen them. That removes the one excuse I could possible see. He can see that he clearly presents as male. No one would mistake him for a woman. And, of course, when you decide solely based on trans status that someone isn’t really who they are, that’s transphobia. It’s misgendering. And, since it seems to be a general point, it’s trans erasure–acting as if trans people aren’t actually real. I’m not sure this board isn’t currently unwelcome to trans people. I again point out that, becasue I argue against transphobia, I’ve actually been contacted and told that several trans posters are no longer here because they don’t feel welcome due to this sort of thing. Hopefully trans people matter to you guys, the same way women, LGB people, and people of various races do. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/3 "2020-07-30T02:21:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And it appears that RickJay himself linked the images. So he’s seen them. That removes the one excuse I could possible see. He can see that he clearly presents as male. No one would mistake him for a woman. …to be clear: the person in the image identified themselves as non-binary. RickJay’s post implied they identified as female, but they did not. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/4 "2020-07-30T02:22:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > the fact that we have a moderator that holds explicitly transphobic positions is problematic for these boards IMHO is he a moderator? it doesnt say so in his profile. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/5 "2020-07-30T02:24:20Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > is he a moderator? it doesnt say so in his profile. …if you hover over RickJay’s title it says “this user is a moderator.” I checked before I posted this. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/6 "2020-07-30T02:26:01Z")
ok I believe you, but I’m not seeing it eta: nvm I see it now ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/7 "2020-07-30T02:42:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This isn’t a thread asking for a resignation or sanction. What I’m asking for is reassurance that RickJay will not deliberately misgender anyone (ETA members) on these boards, especially in his role as moderator here. 1. I wasn’t acting in my role as a moderator. 2. You’ll get nothing of the sort from me and your efforts to censor reasonable debate are pathetic. This has nothing to do with my being a moderator, of course; you’re just looking for an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/8 "2020-07-30T02:44:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > - I wasn’t acting in my role as a moderator. …I never claimed that you were. > [@RickJay](#): > > You’ll get nothing of the sort from me and your efforts to censor reasonable debate are pathetic. This has nothing to do with my being a moderator, of course; you’re just looking for an excuse. I’ll take this as a “no” then? As a moderator would you misgender transgender posters? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/9 "2020-07-30T02:46:12Z")
As a moderator I stick purely to enforcing board rules and offer no opinions on any subject at all. As a poster, I’ll say whatever I please within the rules of the boards. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/10 "2020-07-30T02:50:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Oh, wow. WTF? He’s literally talking about a man who clearly has grown his own beard, and is wearing it proudly to show he’s a man. Anyone looking at him would think he was male. > > Sure, he has soft features, but that changes nothing, any more than a person with sharp features but who clearly presents as female would be assumed to be a man. “Masculine-looking” women exist, as to “feminine looking” men. > > And it appears that RickJay himself linked the images. So he’s seen them. That removes the one excuse I could possible see. He can see that he clearly presents as male. No one would mistake him for a woman. I’m pretty sure the statement “I cannot possibly imagine how someone could think Gregor Murray was a man” was sarcasm. As I understand it, Gregor Murray is not a transman, nor does Murray identify as a transwoman. Rather, Murray identifies as gender non-binary, and wishes to be referred to using the pronouns “they/them”. But Murray also has a beard. So, if I’m understanding all this correctly, it’s actually @BigT who has misgendered Murray, by saying "Anyone looking at _ **him** _ would think _ **he** _ was _ **male** _"and so forth (_ **emphasis** _ added). ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/11 "2020-07-30T02:52:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’ll get nothing of the sort from me and your efforts to censor reasonable debate are pathetic. …just to be crystal clear on this point: the reason why I posted this in About This Message Board is because I didn’t want to be accused of “censoring debate” in that particular thread. I make no objection to you participating in the boards as a member expressing your opinion as you wish as per the rules of the board. The question I asked was are you going to intentionally misgender members of the board in your role as moderator, and it appears that your answer is “you might”, because doing so would be within the rules of the board. Okay then. Thanks for making that clear. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/12 "2020-07-30T02:54:22Z")
I’m not sure how “As a moderator I stick purely to enforcing board rules and offer no opinions on any subject at all” can be that badly misunderstood. You need to read more carefully, but to spell it out, there is no opportunity to do what you call “misgendering,” if you’re just being a moderator, nor would I ever refer to a poster on the SDMB by a pronoun they didn’t want to be referred to with. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/13 "2020-07-30T03:04:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m not sure how “As a moderator I stick purely to enforcing board rules and offer no opinions on any subject at all” can be that badly misunderstood. …I saw the “you are very slow” comment before you deleted it: and that is disappointing. This thread isn’t an attack. Its a genuine question about moderation. Many transgender people have made it clear that these boards are unwelcoming to them. Many have left. I don’t think my question is unreasonable. > [@](#): > > You need to read more carefully, but to spell it out, there is no opportunity to do what you call “misgendering,” **if you’re just being a moderator, nor would I ever refer to a poster on the SDMB by a pronoun they didn’t want to be referred to with.** This was the reassurance I was seeking. Thank you for your clarity. For the record, this statement: > [@RickJay](#): > > You’ll get nothing of the sort from me and your efforts to censor reasonable debate are pathetic. This has nothing to do with my being a moderator, of course; you’re just looking for an excuse. was your first response to me. It said nothing about not “refer(ing) to a poster on the SDMB by a pronoun they didn’t want to be referred to with.” The statement “I stick purely to enforcing board rules and offer no opinions on any subject at all” also does not even remotely imply that you will “refer to a poster on the SDMB by a pronoun they didn’t want to be referred to with.” It implies that " you will do as you wish as long as it within the rules and doesn’t express an opinion.” But again, thanks for clearing things up. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/14 "2020-07-30T03:05:53Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I saw the “you are very slow” comment before you deleted it: I apologize for that and am sorry I typed it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/15 "2020-07-30T03:06:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I apologize for that and am sorry I typed it. …no problems 🙂 Apology accepted. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/16 "2020-07-30T04:33:08Z")
People nearly everywhere would benefit from a distinction between one’s physical morphology and how one identifies. Not to invalidate the latter by reference to the former, but, if anything, to validate the latter by saying it doesn’t have a goddam thing to do with the former. As it shoudn’t. If gender isn’t determined by biology and biology gives a person a beard and a penis and an adam’s apple, why the fuck should that person feel the need to shave the beard, hide or surgically shave the adam’s apple, take hormones, and discard or tuck the penis in order to be one of the girls? Not to disparage those who do, mind you: it causes other people to VIEW YOU as a feminine person in a way that they’re less likely to if you don’t. But if your gender identity is valid regardless of your body, the more revolutionary way to say so is to walk down a nude beach as a male girlish person, saying “this is who I am; get used to it!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/17 "2020-09-17T16:33:04Z")
This would perhaps be best said in one of the threads about the issue of trans rights; this thread in particular was about moderator partisanship and board rules, not the issue itself. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/18 "2020-09-17T16:45:32Z")
_nods_ What evoked a response a month and a half after the last activity, though? Is this thread being discussed elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/19 "2020-09-22T22:22:36Z")
I dunno, it popped up in my mentions. I didn’t notice the date. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766/20 "2020-09-23T03:56:58Z")
Fair enough, just curious! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rickjay-moderation-and-transgender-people/916766.md?page=2)