# Riddle me this, Nader voters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703 "2000-11-10T21:12:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/1 "2000-11-10T21:12:56Z")
Ok, I’ve flamed away in the Pit, using emotions and gut feelings. Now that I’ve calmed down some, I have an honest question to ask, with the hope that I can get some good factual answers. **pldennison** said, in the Pit: > [@](#): > > Do not be bullied by reactionary, exaggerating, fear-mongering idiots into voting for a candidate you do not want to be President. Do not ever let yourself be convinced > that you have a responsibility to vote for one guy you don’t want to block another guy you don’t want. > > ``` > If a candidate cannot attract sufficient votes, it is his fault and his fault alone. If a major-party candidate cannot even win his home state, he has no business being President. > > All of these fear-mongering bullies, who are trying to convince people to abandon their principles to ensure that a candidate that they don't want to be President is in fact elected, > should be given a good solid smack in the mouth. > > ``` and > [@](#): > > Tell me, why did all fifty states waste time putting other candidates on their ballots if they were outside the realm of “the possible”? Think of the millions in typesetting costs that > could have been saved. > > ``` > Also tell me why you would think Nader voters would want Al Gore to be President? How many of them might not have voted at all otherwise, leaving the Bush/Gore dynamic > essentially unchanged? > > ``` Now, it seems to me, that even before this deadlock, it was clear to most everyone that Nader had virtually no chance in this election, all crazy possibilities aside. Now, with a revote (that, for the record, I wouldn’t support) a possibility in Florida, **pldennison** has said this: > [@](#): > > ``` > If there are 10,000+ ballots being thrown out in every election in Florida, then obviously Florida needs to get its shit together. But a re-vote? With the rest of the results across the > country in, and Nader voters getting a chance to change their votes since Bush may actually win? No way. > > ``` Why, if these Naderites believed in their cause so much, as you had earlier suggested, should we think that they would change their votes now? This doesn’t seem to follow with me. They knew he had no realistic chance BEFORE the election. Why does knowing that he won’t win now change anything? ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/2 "2000-11-10T21:21:04Z")
I voted for Nader, but not because I wanted him to win. Basically, since Gore was guaranteed to win my state (NY), I figured I would help Nader get his 5% for Federal funding in order to create a valid 3rd party alternative who would be given a fair chance in the election process, not censored from our view (but that’s a whole other debate). They’re saying that there are probably people in Florida who did the same thing, assuming Bush/Gore would win anyway. Now that they realize the closeness, they would vote for who they wanted. If Bush actually won my state, I’d be wishing for a re-vote so I could change my vote to Gore. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/3 "2000-11-10T21:37:47Z")
What **c\_goat** said. Much of the Nader voting was predicated on the idea of getting him his national 5% to qualify for matching funds. Well, at this point, it’s apparent that he **won’t** get 5% nationally. So, if there were a re-vote held, there would be no reason for the “5% contingent” to vote for him again; they’d probably switch their votes to Gore. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/4 "2000-11-10T21:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\* > Why, if these Naderites believed in their cause so much, as you had earlier suggested, should we think that they would change their votes now? This doesn’t seem to follow with me. They knew he had no realistic chance BEFORE the election. Why does knowing that he won’t win now change anything? \*\* Agree with you here. I would vote for him again if there were a revote and I was in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/5 "2000-11-10T21:41:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*What **c\_goat** said. > > Much of the Nader voting was predicated on the idea of getting him his national 5% to qualify for matching funds. Well, at this point, it’s apparent that he **won’t** get 5% nationally. So, if there were a re-vote held, there would be no reason for the “5% contingent” to vote for him again; they’d probably switch their votes to Gore. \*\* So, can I, by extension, take this as a retraction of this statement? > [@](#): > > Also tell me why you would think Nader voters would want Al Gore to be President? ---
**Author:** ![jumblemind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jumblemind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jumblemind)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/6 "2000-11-10T21:48:51Z")
I’ll throw in a third. **c\_goat** , I’m guessing if you lived in Florida you never would have voted Nader. I wanted to vote for the Green Party (whose candidate is regrettably Nader) for the same reasons as you, but I realized how divided Tennessee was and I voted Gore. I mean, how many pro-Naderites could there possibly be in Palm Beach Co.? I think the idea of changing votes on a re-vote is almost as silly and pointless as tossing around the thought of actually doing a re-vote. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/7 "2000-11-10T21:52:22Z")
I find this just amazing. Look back on the other Nadar threads, and you’ll see dems saying “see, if Nadar hadn’t run, those votes would have gone to Gore, and Gore would have won” and the Gore and Bush folks swearing up and down 'Oh, no, you can’t assume that the Nadar voters would have voted for Gore over Bush, they might have voted Brown or stayed home or or or or or" … ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/8 "2000-11-10T21:55:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flymaster \* > \*\* > So, can I, by extension, take this as a retraction of this statement? > > > [@](#): > > > > Also tell me why you would think Nader voters would want Al Gore to be President? > > \*\* Well, first of all, it’s a question, not a statement, so no, I’m not going to retract the question. Second of all, since we have in this thread one Nader voter who says he’d do the same no matter what, and one who says that given the Florida circumstances he’d change his vote, I’d still like to see you **answer** it. I stand by every other statement I made that you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/9 "2000-11-10T22:03:01Z")
Ok, I’ll answer it: Every exit poll of Nader Voters that I saw went about 60-20-20 that, in a 2 person election, they would have voted Gore-Bush-Not at all. That, and the sheer logic that Ultra-Liberals, given a choice between a Conservative and a Moderate-Liberal, would pick the Moderate-Liberal. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/10 "2000-11-10T22:11:57Z")
Well, Palm Beach voters already voted once, expressing their choie. Given the chance to actually determine whether Bush or Gore is going to be the next president, the situation is in no way similar. I don’t suppose that Nader voters there really want Gore to be president, but most probably would relish the chance to keep Bush from being president. The stakes involved are so vastly different that the two situations are in no way comparable. In any event, a re-vote is simply ridiculous, just because no one can predict what changes will occur. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/11 "2000-11-10T22:57:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*Well, Palm Beach voters already voted once, expressing their choie. Given the chance to actually determine whether Bush or Gore is going to be the next president, the situation is in no way similar. I don’t suppose that Nader voters there really want Gore to be president, but most probably would relish the chance to keep Bush from being president. > > The stakes involved are so vastly different that the two situations are in no way comparable. In any event, a re-vote is simply ridiculous, just because no one can predict what changes will occur. \*\* Well, as I’ve already stated, I find the idea of a revote to be ridiculous, and if it happens, it would be a true mockery of democracy. But I don’t see how the stakes involved are any different. Either way, Bush or Gore is going to be president. One of the two was going to be president in the first election, and that situation wouldn’t change in a revote. If you TRULY believe that a Nader vote ISN’T a wasted vote, I see no reason NOT to vote for him in the revote. ---
**Author:** ![ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/12 "2000-11-10T22:59:17Z")
Many of us Nader voters are belligerent bastards and enjoy being in the position we’re in. I would have voted for Nader in Florida, and would do so again. Gore can’t have my vote, period. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/13 "2000-11-11T01:13:19Z")
As I mentioned in another thread, the only way I see to resolve this question is to revote nationwide, with only Bush and Gore on the ballot. Someone told me that you just can’t do that. So I guess we’ll be stuck with whatever the powers-that-be decide. The reason I voted Nader is that, after studying the issues, I decided that he was the candidate I most wanted to be president. The actual possibility of that happening didn’t enter into my decision. Had Nader not been on the ballot I would most likely have voted for Gore I agree that Gore probably cost Nader a lot of votes. By the way, the outcomes of sporting events are not determined by the people who watch them, so that analogy doesn’t stand and is irrelevant. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/14 "2000-11-11T04:33:31Z")
“the outcomes of sporting events are not determined by the people who watch them” not true:) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/15 "2000-11-11T04:59:49Z")
Well, I voted for Nader, but I advocated the Ivin’s rule, so it goes without saying that I would change my vote in a second to Gore if I knew it would make a difference. And, in fact, I never would have voted for Nader if I lived in Florida. However, my guess is that those voters who did actually vote for Nader in the end, especially in swing states like Florida, are ones who were pretty committed to him (like **oldscratch** ) and would not sway all that easily. (Note that the number of votes Nader actually got was lower than polls before the election had him getting…although admittedly the margin of error on a candidate pulling few percent is larger too.) On the other hand, it wouldn’t take many of them switching to shift things the election on a re-vote. ---
**Author:** ![DSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@DSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSC)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/16 "2000-11-11T05:17:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ed \* > \*\*Many of us Nader voters are belligerent bastards and enjoy being in the position we’re in. > > I would have voted for Nader in Florida, and would do so again. Gore can’t have my vote, period. \*\* I heard on the radio today that whomever gets to be president should appoint Nader as ambassador to North Korea. That way he could see first hand what impact policies like his have had on that screwed up country. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/17 "2000-11-11T05:54:58Z")
Ambassador to Mexico, even. They have nice, high tariffs, just like he likes 'em. He should be made to drink the water too, so as to efficaciously evacuate what he’s so obviously full of. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/18 "2000-11-11T06:37:31Z")
[All right, guys, jokes are fine and all, but Great Debates really isn’t the place for them.] Retrospect is a wonderful luxury, isn’t it? First off, Hawaii, possibly the most shamelesssly Democratic state in the country (there’s been some noise about shaking things up, but don’t kid yourselves, the donkeys ain’t going away anytime soon), was pretty strongly in Gore’s court, so I wouldn’t mind sticking with my pick if there was a revote. _However_, I’d stick with my choice regardless, because, in my opinion, neither Gore nor Bush deserves the presidency. Furthermore, I’d be hard pressed to find an election were there were two lesser deserving candidates on the major tickets (and yes, this includes Clinton vs. Dole). And let me be the first to say that I’m appalled by the amount of abuse heaped on Nader AND Buchanan voters simply because they followed their conscience. Listen, I’m as opposed to Bible-slappin’ reactionaries as the next person, but Buchanan’s addressed some compelling concerns that the corporate-financed centrists couldn’t be bothered with (say, the federal reserve deliberatly maintaining an unemployment level to prevent inflation). If millions of voters could overlook Bush’s blatantly obvious flaws for the good he could do, why not Buchanan as well? Is it really inconceivable that a bunch of voters in Florida would _want_ to choose him? Forget it. I made my choice and I’m sticking to it. Don’t blame me, I _voted_. And that’s more than I can say for about 46% of the electorate. (Sheesh, I never thought the day would come where I’d be defending Pat Buchanan. Politics really does do weird things to people’s minds. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/19 "2000-11-11T17:16:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSC \* > > I heard on the radio today that whomever gets to be president should appoint Nader as ambassador to North Korea. That way he could see first hand what impact policies like his have had on that screwed up country. Hmmm…Last time I looked, North Korea wasn’t being run by people who were crusading for citizen involvement in the governmental process and against the domination by powerful interests who seek to stifle that involvement. But, hey, maybe you know more about North Korea than I do! ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703/20 "2000-11-11T19:32:37Z")
Yes, if therre were a revote, I would still vote Nader. I am in Ohio and it did go to Bush. There were little over 113,000 votes for Nader. I am not sure if that would’ve made the difference if all had “defected” to Gore. I would not vote for Bush or Gore and neither would 50% or more of the U.S. obviously. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this-nader-voters/40703.md?page=2)