# Riddle me this!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2009, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989 "2009-03-02T10:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/41 "2009-03-03T14:40:41Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > I believe that **Mijin** ’s point is that “assuming” isn’t a noun. “Assumption” is the correct form. Well, it appears that **Mijin** originally assumed 😃 that “assuming” wasn’t a noun there. Turns out, though, that in this case “assuming” was indeed a noun. As I explained in post #38, “assuming” and “assumption” are equally correct as nouns, but with some difference in meaning. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/42 "2009-03-03T15:49:51Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Turns out, though, that in this case “assuming” was indeed a noun. To be precise, in this context ‘assuming’ would be a **gerund** , as mentioned in point 2 of my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/43 "2009-03-03T15:56:45Z")
Easy ! He should beat up the blind person’s wife again, in the presence of the blind man (who will hear the beating), and pretend to be the deaf man by not reacting to any sound. so the blind man will get the impression that the deaf man did beat his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Kilobyte70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kilobyte70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilobyte70)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/44 "2009-03-03T18:07:20Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > On behalf of everyone here, congratulations on being so very intelligent. > > Just a few points I’d like to mention. > > 1. There should be a comma after the word ‘Sorry’. > 2. ‘You’ should be ‘your’ because it introduces a gerund. > 3. ‘Stanford’ and ‘Binet’ should be capitalised, and possibly hyphenated. > 4. Your final sentence contains the word ‘had’ more times than it should. > > If I were you, I’d ask for your money back. Sorry but I was not aware this was a scholarly discussion and hence was not paying attention to grammer (or spelling for that matter) Yes, that was sarcasm. And as someone else mentioned this is not grammer 101 or a debate about my IQ (which i mentioned in a completely innocuous way). ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/45 "2009-03-03T18:31:52Z")
> [@Kilobyte70](#): > > this is not grammer 101 or a debate about my IQ If I may offer a gentle correction, I believe you mean ‘grammar’. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/46 "2009-03-03T19:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry but you assuming that I found that from an online test is completely wrong. > I have had an official stanford binet test and have the certificate to prove it. I had also had tests while at school on which I had scored 140+ consistently. In that case I apologize. However, in the vast majority of cases where someone online claims to have an IQ three standard deviations above the mean, it turns out that that value was in fact obtained from an unreliable web test. Since that situation is so common, I thought it would likely be useful to mention it here. ---
**Author:** ![Kilobyte70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kilobyte70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilobyte70)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/47 "2009-03-03T20:28:18Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > If I may offer a gentle correction, I believe you mean ‘grammar’. Ok that was actually a stupid mistake on my part..lol. ---
**Author:** ![Kilobyte70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kilobyte70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilobyte70)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/48 "2009-03-03T20:29:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In that case I apologize. However, in the vast majority of cases where someone online claims to have an IQ three standard deviations above the mean, it turns out that that value was in fact obtained from an unreliable web test. Since that situation is so common, I thought it would likely be useful to mention it here. Thanks for ur apology. No harm done. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/49 "2009-03-03T20:46:05Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Well, it appears that **Mijin** originally assumed 😃 that “assuming” wasn’t a noun there. Turns out, though, that in this case “assuming” was indeed a noun. As I explained in post #38, “assuming” and “assumption” are equally correct as nouns, but with some difference in meaning. I disagree. “Assuming” is a word, but that usage is incorrect. It is similar to the statement “Your wanting a cheezborger is silly”. Wanting is a word, but shouldn’t be used in this manner, because it is a [stative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stative_verb) verb. Assuming is a stative verb as [well](http://www.vivquarry.com/wkshts/stative.html). The proper form would indeed be “your assumption is incorrect” or “you are assuming incorrectly” or even “you assume incorrectly”. I don’t think it would be right to anyone’s ears if I said “that assuming is wrong” or “his assuming is based on improper logic”. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/50 "2009-03-03T21:10:24Z")
**Kilobyte70** , if you’re planning to spend any time here, stop with the net abbreviations and tighten up your spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Otherwise any thread you participate in will turn into a discussion of some aspect of your abbreviations, spelling, grammar, or punctuation or any combination thereof, and nothing you actually say will be taken very seriously. We will mock you and ride you ceaselessly on this; it is an integral part of our culture here. If you don’t like that, shape up or don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I don’t mean you any harm; I’m telling you this for your own sake. Most new posters here have lurked long enough to know this before they start, but any who haven’t are hounded until they either leave or straighten up and fly right. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/51 "2009-03-03T21:40:19Z")
Ok, since I’m obviously not smart enough, having not scored 140+ on any web-based IQ tests\*, can someone explain the answer to the riddle? Or have we given up at this point? \*Nor have I taken any. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/52 "2009-03-03T21:51:57Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > “Assuming” is a word, but that usage is incorrect. It is similar to the statement “Your wanting a cheezborger is silly”. Wanting is a word, but shouldn’t be used in this manner, because it is a [stative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stative_verb) verb. Assuming is a stative verb as [well](http://www.vivquarry.com/wkshts/stative.html). / I don’t think it would be right to anyone’s ears if I said “that assuming is wrong” or “his assuming is based on improper logic”. Apparently, I manage to post in invisible ink! For the third and final time, in the original context ‘assuming’ is, or would be, a **gerund**. You are correct to say that an example such as ‘that assuming is wrong’ would never sound right. However, ‘your assuming that I was just quoting a website’ would be a perfectly correct use of a gerund, even though there are simpler and better ways to express the same idea. I won’t post about this again. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/53 "2009-03-03T21:58:42Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > I disagree. Then you disagree with every grammar authority I’ve found. > [@](#): > > “Assuming” is a word, but that usage is incorrect. No, it is not incorrect. > [@](#): > > It is similar to the statement “Your wanting a cheezborger is silly”. That’s true. > [@](#): > > Wanting is a word, but shouldn’t be used in this manner, because it is a [stative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stative_verb) verb. Assuming is a stative verb as [well](http://www.vivquarry.com/wkshts/stative.html). No. “Wanting” and “assuming” **can be** stative verbs, but in this case they are **not**. They are gerunds functioning as nouns. Other examples are “his reading is improving” and “walking is good exercise.” Those might sound more familiar to you. > [@](#): > > The proper form would indeed be “your assumption is incorrect” or “you are assuming incorrectly” or even “you assume incorrectly”. Those are proper, but so is the usage that includes “assuming” which is under discussion. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it would be right to anyone’s ears if I said “that assuming is wrong” or “his assuming is based on improper logic”. Those are awkward uses, but don’t really make your point. Try “killing is wrong,” or “that yelling is upsetting the kids.” In the sentence under discussion, the relevant phrase is “your assuming that I found that from an online test,” which is the subject of the sentence with “assuming” being a gerund functioning as a noun. It succinctly, accurately, and correctly addresses the act of assuming and that which is being assumed. The sentence can be rewritten to use “assumption,” “assume,” or “assuming” acting as part of a verb phrase, but those would be no more correct than the sentence as written. Google on _gerunds_ and you can find plenty of info and explanation of this. Here are a few to get you started: [ http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerund.htm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund)[http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerund.htm](http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerund.htm) [http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/627/01/](http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/627/01/) [http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-gerunds.htm](http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-gerunds.htm) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/54 "2009-03-03T22:13:34Z")
Interesting as grammar and stuff is, what’s the answer to the riddle? ---
**Author:** ![John\_H\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@John\_H\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_H_1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/55 "2009-03-03T22:22:32Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Ok, since I’m obviously not smart enough, having not scored 140+ on any web-based IQ tests\*, can someone explain the answer to the riddle? Or have we given up at this point? We’ve correctly answered the riddle several times already in this thread. Since the riddle has such loose wording there are many valid answers. The correctness of an answer is subjective and without further restrictions will not be reduced to a single answer. I would expect the correct answer to be at least somewhat clever or tricky. With that in mind I would say Ianzin’s answer is the best: > [@Ianzin](#): > > The mute guy tells the blind man what happened. > > ‘Mute’ can mean ‘unable to speak’. But it can mean other things. He could be a professional mourner, or a man who sells devices that modify the sound made by musical instruments. See: > mute. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/56 "2009-03-03T23:13:07Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Then you disagree with every grammar authority I’ve found. Well, since you didn’t cite any, that doesn’t help you much. And, **ianzin** , you aren’t posting invisibly, it’s simply that I don’t agree that you can say “It’s a gerund!” and end any discussion. It is a gerund (thanks for the pointers, but I was familiar with the concept). However, the usage makes for poor construction, and isn’t used by normal speakers, for the same reason you don’t say “I am wanting”. He was not commenting on how the assuming was performed. He was commenting on the result of the assumption. If someone is running awkwardly, fine. But you can’t be wanting poorly, you can’t need awkwardly, etc. etc. You can assume badly in the sense of taking over a position, but you either assume a fact or you don’t, there is no process to criticize. So, I suppose you can say it’s proper grammar and that there are no rules against stative verbs used as gerunds, but you would be writing awkwardly. Also, your condescending is annoying. I understood your point on your first post, but I thought, and still think, that it is wrong, though I will stipulate that there are probably no formal rules saying so. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/57 "2009-03-04T00:03:44Z")
I like ianzin’s answer best also. It’s probably not what the proposer of the puzzle had in mind, but then the puzzle needs to be rephrased to exclude that possiblity. I was going to suggest that the mute person and the blind person go through a long involved process of making up their own language system involving sounds made by a simple musical instrument like a drum. Obviously a pretty terrible solution. This sounds to me like one of those brain teasers that is typically solved by answering a series of Yes or No questions. Like the man who takes the elevator but only when it’s raining. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/58 "2009-03-04T00:23:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Like the man who takes the elevator but only when it’s raining. That’s because the stairs get slippery from all the people in wet shoes using them. ---
**Author:** ![Kilobyte70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kilobyte70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilobyte70)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/59 "2009-03-04T20:37:33Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > **Kilobyte70** , if you’re planning to spend any time here, stop with the net abbreviations and tighten up your spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Otherwise any thread you participate in will turn into a discussion of some aspect of your abbreviations, spelling, grammar, or punctuation or any combination thereof, and nothing you actually say will be taken very seriously. We will mock you and ride you ceaselessly on this; it is an integral part of our culture here. If you don’t like that, shape up or don’t let the door hit you on the way out. > > I don’t mean you any harm; I’m telling you this for your own sake. Most new posters here have lurked long enough to know this before they start, but any who haven’t are hounded until they either leave or straighten up and fly right. I find those statements wrong on so many different levels: Firstly English is not my first language; it’s not even my second language. My first language is Hindi and my 2nd language is French. English is my 3rd language along with Italian, German and a bit of Spanish and I have been living in an English speaking country for less than 3 years. So discriminating or bullying me just because my language or grammar skills are not perfect is not very commendable. Secondly I read through the rules for posting and did not see anything stating that my posts have to be in perfectly worded English. I am a university student and have a very busy schedule and I do not have the time to perfectly edit and proof-read every post I make on every website and so I have to succumb to using the occasional internet shorthand. Thirdly I was lead to believe by one of the website moderators that I would be able to find an answer to my question in these boards. So if you cannot help me any further please say so and don’t waste my time or yours bickering about irrelevant nuances. Normally I admire pedanticalness but here I find it unnecessary and offensive. I have no intention being ‘hounded’ out since I will gain nothing by it other than a very low opinion about the people in this site. So please just say if you still feel the same way and I will gladly evict myself from these boards. ---
**Author:** ![Kilobyte70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kilobyte70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilobyte70)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989/60 "2009-03-04T20:41:06Z")
> [@John\_H\_1](#): > > We’ve correctly answered the riddle several times already in this thread. Since the riddle has such loose wording there are many valid answers. The correctness of an answer is subjective and without further restrictions will not be reduced to a single answer. I would expect the correct answer to be at least somewhat clever or tricky. > > With that in mind I would say Ianzin’s answer is the best: And no the mute in this riddle is really a mute. He is unable to speak or form any sound whatsoever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riddle-me-this/487989.md?page=4)