# Ridiculous?:Kabbalah and Celebs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786 "2005-02-07T08:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/21 "2005-02-08T07:53:13Z")
> [@jeffh3000](#): > > My issue lies with this trendy meaninglessness. Celebs have cherry picked a trendy 2% of legends and ceromonies from Kabbalah, taken away all the meaning, and have turned it into pop culture, pretending/claiming to be Kabbalists while breaking many of the most basic and sacred kabbalah tenets. That is what makes it silly- there is no belief or meaning behind what they do. The real problem here is that EVERYBODY (or practically everybody) cherry-picks what they want to believe from their own religion. Or believes in different things, or variations, or added things that aren’t in Scriptures, and so on. You’re coming to this from the assumption that there’s the real religion, where everybody believes the same things, reads the same things, and understands them the same way, and then this trendy phony interpretation. There are a bunch of different kinds of Judaism, and if you ask members of some of them, members of others aren’t ‘really’ Jewish, or aren’t ‘as Jewish.’ The same is obviously true of Christianity and probably every other religion. > [@](#): > > I find it silly every time celebs or pop culture highjack any religious belief system so that they can pretend to be “deep” or “spiritual” when they really have no clue what they are talking about. Kabbalah is just one currently popular example. You seem particularly annoyed by it, but this isn’t unique to celebrities at all. Trendy things pop out of religions pretty often, I think. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/22 "2005-02-09T03:05:27Z")
Re Berg Fluency in Hebrew and Aramaic is essential to understanding Kabbalah. A translated Zohar is a worthless Zohar. It is also an insult to Kabbalah, and the text itself. Berg is a mamzer. I forget which Jewish sage said “May he be cursed in his laying down and cursed in his rising up, cursed in his going out and cursed in his coming in, cursed at the rising of the sun and cursed at the setting of the sun.” Re Crowley And The Hermetics I have never seen evidence that Crowley believed any of his teachings. I have seen evidence that he was a conscious fraud who pretended mysticism to get money, sex, and attention. Considering how many Hermetic texts I’ve seen which mistake the Greek Hermes for Thoth/Hermes Trismigestus/Thrice Great Hermes I don’t have a lot of respect for them. They’ve also managed to fundamentally misunderstand Kabbalah. A central tenet of Kabbalah is that the Torah is exactly as G-d gave it to Moses. A Torah with one letter changed is defaced and imperfect. A Torah translated into English, or any other language, holds no mystic secrets and is without mystic power. Kabbalah cannot be seperated from Judaism. You can make mommale’s chicken soup with matzoh balls using pork or shrimp and still have something. You cannot remove Judaism from Kabbalah and have anything valid. ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/23 "2005-02-09T06:55:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@jeffh3000](#): > > > > I find it silly every time celebs or pop culture highjack any religious belief system so that they can pretend to be “deep” or “spiritual” when they really have no clue what they are talking about. Kabbalah is just one currently popular example. > > You seem particularly annoyed by it, but this isn’t unique > You seem particularly annoyed by it, but this isn’t unique to celebrities at all. Trendy things pop out of religions pretty often, I think. Oh, I realize that it isn’t just celebrities, that is why I refer to pop culture doing this in general, celebs are just easy to point out. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/24 "2005-02-10T00:22:52Z")
> [@jeffh3000](#): > > Kabbalah is a Jewish tradition, if they aren’t jewish then they aren’t kabbalists. The issue is that the people that we are referring to are not kabbalists, they are just pretending to be, while only following a few legends and glitzy rituals with a complete lack of understanding of Kabbalah. No Jeff, they are not pretending, they are trying. (To you, I suppose they are very trying!) They are doing the best they can to follow a religious tradition that appeals to them spiritually, and who are we to protest? Remember “freedom of religion?” Frankly, your approach strikes me as elitist, and somewhat bigoted. It just doesn’t make sense. > [@jeffh3000](#): > > I have no problem with real Kabbalists, only pretenders of **any** belief or religion which is only done for the pop culture value. That is the reason this bothers me. How can you know their motivation? You can’t. Unless you are claiming psychic powers or some sort of inside information. > [@jeffh3000](#): > > what these people are doing really isn’t even Kabbalah. To them it is, and that’s all that matters. FWIW, I know a few of these people. They are seeking to enlighten themselves, to gain spiritual knowledge (and in some cases power) from a mystical tradition shrouded in elite mysteries. It’s very appealing. Some of them actually work quite hard at it as well. Perhaps what they are doing doesn’t fit _your_ criteria, but who are you to claim they are insincere? Methinks the doper doth protest _too_ much. Plus. Who are they hurting? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/25 "2005-02-10T00:55:00Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > No Jeff, they are not pretending, they are trying. (To you, I suppose they are very trying!) They are doing the best they can to follow a religious tradition that appeals to them spiritually, They can’t be trying very hard. The slightest bit of research would reveal that Berg is teaching them a bastardized, gutted version of a tradition. > [@](#): > > and who are we to protest? I don’t know about you, but I’m a Jew. > [@](#): > > Remember “freedom of religion?” Strawman. Nowhere have I said that Berg should be prevented from ‘teaching’ by law or force. I haven’t suggested laws or the use of force to prevent Madonna and the rest from studying. I am simply excercising my freedom of speech. > [@](#): > > Frankly, your approach strikes me as elitist, and somewhat bigoted. It just doesn’t make sense. Kabbalah is founded in strict adherence to Jewish law, fluency in Hebrew and Aramaic, and years of Talmudic study. Berg is teaching that none of that is necessary. > [@](#): > > To them it is [Kabbalah] and that’s all that matters. So if somebody pursues spiritual truth by deciding the New Testament is unimportant and unnecessary, but that they can achieve enlightenment by wearing a robe, sandals, and carrying a jar of carpenter ants, the only thing that matters is that they consider what they are doing Christianity? > [@](#): > > FWIW, I know a few of these people. They are seeking to enlighten themselves, to gain spiritual knowledge (and in some cases power) from a mystical tradition shrouded in elite mysteries. In general, they want secrets without bothering to learn the elite mysteries. Second, any one studying Kabbalah to gain power is a misguided idiot. The ability to predict the future, cure the sick, or create golems is NOT the goal of Kabbalah. These are side effects. The goal of Kabbalah is to truly know and understand G-d. > [@](#): > > It’s very appealing. Some of them actually work quite hard at it as well. I’m sure some people also work hard at Dianetics. > [@](#): > > Perhaps what they are doing doesn’t fit _your_ criteria, Or the criteria of the man who wrote the Zohar. Or the criteria of centuries worth of rabbis and scholars. Again-Strict adherence to Jewish law, and decades of study of the Talmud in the original languages are the prime requisite for Kabbalah. Without that, it’s impossible to understand. The metaphors are lost on you. The multiple interpratations of words and sentences are lost on you. The nuances are lost on you. And you lack the entire context in which things are said. > [@](#): > > but who are you to claim they are insincere? I never said they were insincere (Except for Crowley). I said that they were misguided. > [@](#): > > Plus. Who are they hurting? Define hurt. Berg is perverting, disemboweling, and commercializing a sacred part of my heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/26 "2005-02-10T01:05:27Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > Plus. Who are they hurting? They’re hurting all the people who study Kaballah for real, and they’re hurting Judaism, by turning it into “Exotic religion of the week” just like has been done to Hinduism, to Buddhism, to Islam. In all these cases, people from outside the religion come in and look at the mystic tradition and they decide they want spiritual enlightenment, Now most of these mystic traditions say that you need to be a good member of the religion before you even try to take them on…that you have to know the holy books of the religion, and try to follow the religion’s rules, and they point out that to achieve enlightenment, to be a good Kabbalist, or a good Sufi, or a good Zen monk, or a good Krishna devotee, it’s not enough just to memorize some phrases or to perform certain rituals. You have to be willing to lead a life of self denial. You have to strive for perfection, and to purify yourself. Why? Because you’re learning hidden meanings that aren’t obvious to the average worshiper, and meanings that, if you don’t know enough of the basics of the religion, seem radical or even heretical. Is it elitist? Yeah…that’s the point. It’s a form of religion for the elite, that is out of reach of the ordinary, casual worshiper. So when somebody comes in who doesn’t have that background, who tries to come in from the outside and says, “I want to learn it”, how can they learn it? They’re not spiritually ready. And when a teacher or guru says “Come on, everyone can learn it, just pay me”, they’re taking what’s a serious and private thing, watering it down, and using it to get rich. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/27 "2005-02-10T01:42:55Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > They can’t be trying very hard. The slightest bit of research would reveal that Berg is teaching them a bastardized, gutted version of a tradition. > > I don’t know about you, but I’m a Jew. Doc, I wasn’t addressing you, but **jeff** , his comments and his attitudes. I also wasn’t referring to Berg. Not all who study Kabbalah learn from Berg. > [@DocCathode](#): > > So if somebody pursues spiritual truth by deciding the New Testament is unimportant and unnecessary, but that they can achieve enlightenment by wearing a robe, sandals, and carrying a jar of carpenter ants, the only thing that matters is that they consider what they are doing Christianity? Irrelevant, misleading and an insulting comparison, to boot. You might want to consider a chill pill. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/28 "2005-02-10T01:55:58Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > Irrelevant, misleading and an insulting comparison, to boot. You might want to consider a chill pill. Explain exactly how it is irrelevant and misleading. From where I sit, it’s an entirely relevant explanation of what’s being done to Kabbalah. I fail to see how it’s misleading either. You said that as long as these folks think they are practicing Kabbalah, that’s what matters. Well, they misunderstand and practice as badly as the ‘Christian’ in my example. When my hypothetical calls himself a Christian, you call it insulting. When I’m insulted by gentiles calling themselves Kabbalists, you tell me to “take a chill pill.” What, exactly, is the difference? ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/29 "2005-02-10T02:03:01Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > They’re hurting all the people who study Kaballah for real, and they’re hurting Judaism, by turning it into “Exotic religion of the week” just like has been done to Hinduism, to Buddhism, to Islam. In all these cases, people from outside the religion come in and look at the mystic tradition and they decide they want spiritual enlightenment, Those who are studying are hurting no one. Those who pervert the teachings are hurting their students, perhaps, but Kabballah has been “the exotic religion of the week” off and on for hundreds of years. It’s too late – it’s a done deal. And it’s been done to every religion anyway already. I guess you think you are special? Get a clue – so does everyone else. > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > So when somebody comes in who doesn’t have that background, who tries to come in from the outside and says, “I want to learn it”, how can they learn it? They’re not spiritually ready. And when a teacher or guru says “Come on, everyone can learn it, just pay me”, they’re taking what’s a serious and private thing, watering it down, and using it to get rich. This thread has been attacking the students, not phoney teachers. Changing the subject doesn’t make you right. Seekers have a right to seek whatever is available. If you think you can keep them away from your precious teachings, too late… The secret’s out. Sure there’s a lot who won’t, can’t get it. There’s a lot of Jews who won’t, can’t get it either. If you don’t like the phoney teachers, I don’t blame you. I don’t like them either, and judaism doesn’t have a monopoly on them; just about every religion has those who for various reasons teaches a distorted version, most of them thinking they have the real truth and that the old way was wrong. But I’m not going to go online and whine (or is that kvetch?) about it. I’ve heard enough whining since the 2000 elections (redoubled in 2004) to last a lifetime. Whining just makes you look immature. You don’t like something? Why don’t you do something useful. Oh, pardon me, freedom of speech, you’re free to whine if you wish. Just as the rest of us are free to form our opinions about whiners. You’re free to think studying Kabballah is ridiculous if not done in a way you approve of. And anyone who wants to study Kabbalah or anything else is free to do so no matter what you say or do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/30 "2005-02-10T02:07:57Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > They’re hurting all the people who study Kaballah for real, and they’re hurting Judaism, by turning it into “Exotic religion of the week” just like has been done to Hinduism, to Buddhism, to Islam. In all these cases, people from outside the religion come in and look at the mystic tradition and they decide they want spiritual enlightenment, You’ve got a strange definition of “hurting.” They may be embarrassing themselves, but I don’t think they can be hurting Judaism, Jews, or actual Kaballah students, many of whom are probably unaware of what they’re doing at all. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/31 "2005-02-10T02:14:40Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > And it’s been done to every religion anyway already. Ah, so because people have already crapped all over other religions, we should just be quiet when they do it to ours? > [@](#): > > I guess you think you are special? Get a clue – so does everyone else. Nice gratuitous insult. > [@](#): > > This thread has been attacking the students, not phoney teachers. Personally, I’ve been attacking both. > [@](#): > > Seekers have a right to seek whatever is available. And if they do so without basic research, or ignore basic requirements, or disregard any part that is inconvenient for them, then they are idiots. > [@](#): > > You’re free to think studying Kabballah is ridiculous if not done in a way you approve of. It is not just the way **I** approve of. Again, it is the way the author of the Zohar intended. Kabbalah is a **Jewish** tradition. Saying that you don’t have to keep the mitzvot or be fluent in Hebrew to study it is like saying you don’t need a thorough knowledge of anatomy in order to become a surgeon. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/32 "2005-02-10T02:15:51Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Explain exactly how it is irrelevant and misleading. From where I sit, it’s an entirely relevant explanation of what’s being done to Kabbalah. I fail to see how it’s misleading either. The subject of your paragraph isn’t trying to study Christianity. > [@DocCathode](#): > > You said that as long as these folks think they are practicing Kabbalah, that’s what matters. No, that’s not what I said. You are ranting about what you imagined I said. That’s why I suggested you take a chill pill (not told you). You’re losing your objectivity. > [@DocCathode](#): > > you tell me to “take a chill pill.” > [@EvanS](#): > > You might want to consider a chill pill. > [@DocCathode](#): > > What, exactly, is the difference? I’m paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/33 "2005-02-10T02:25:16Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Ah, so because people have already crapped all over other religions, we should just be quiet when they do it to ours? > > Nice gratuitous insult. > > Personally, I’ve been attacking both. > > And if they do so without basic research, or ignore basic requirements, or disregard any part that is inconvenient for them, then they are idiots. > > It is not just the way **I** approve of. Again, it is the way the author of the Zohar intended. Kabbalah is a **Jewish** tradition. Saying that you don’t have to keep the mitzvot or be fluent in Hebrew to study it is like saying you don’t need a thorough knowledge of anatomy in order to become a surgeon. I never said they had to do or didn’t have to do anything. I only said they have a right to study whatever they want. You’re entitled to your opinion. You can whine if you want. You can even continue imagining that I’m saying things that I’m not. You can call people idiots and infer how superior you are, and infer that these teachings are the only truly special teachings. But you can’t drive people away from what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/34 "2005-02-10T02:30:40Z")
Nobody’s saying they don’t have the right to do it. I don’t think anyone is suggesting there be some law passed banning them from it. I’m just saying that I think they’re acting improperly. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/35 "2005-02-10T02:33:36Z")
> [@Me](#): > > You said that as long as these folks think they are practicing Kabbalah, that’s what matters. > [@EvanS](#): > > No, that’s not what I said. You are ranting about what you imagined I said. I imagined it? Nope. > [@Jeffh3000](#): > > what these people are doing really isn’t even Kabbalah > [@EvanS](#): > > To them it is, and that’s all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/36 "2005-02-10T02:39:29Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > The subject of your paragraph isn’t trying to study Christianity. But, he thinks he is and according to you ‘that’s all that matters’. > [@](#): > > No, that’s not what I said. Sure it is. See post # 24 of this thread. > [@](#): > > You are ranting about what you imagined I said. I imagined post #24? > [@](#): > > You’re losing your objectivity. I never claimed to be objective about people crapping on my religion. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/37 "2005-02-10T02:45:38Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I imagined it? Nope. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Jeffh3000 > what these people are doing really isn’t even Kabbalah > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by EvanS > To them it is, and that’s all that matters. Oh, that one. I thought you were talking about something more recent. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/38 "2005-02-10T02:50:16Z")
> [@EvanS](#): > > You’re entitled to your opinion. You can whine if you want. Nice. My arguments are “whining”. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > You can even continue imagining that I’m saying things that I’m not. Ladies and gentleman, I present the Post #24 dancers! > [@](#): > > You can call people idiots and infer how superior you are, In that I have never worn an ohm and claimed it made me a Hindu, tied a Buddha to my writs and claimed it would help me attain Nirvana, or otherwise grabbed the practices or symbols of another religion without understanding it, yes I am superior. > [@](#): > > and infer that these teachings are the only truly special teachings. Show me where I did that. I clearly stated that Thelemite Kabbalah, Christian Kabbalah, and Berg’s Special K are crap, and that the only valid Kabbalah is thoroughly Jewish. BUT, I never inferred that Christianity does not have it’s own elite teachings which are just as valuable and must be studied by observant Christians. Or that Islam does not have special teachings which can be understood only by those fluent in Arabic, learned in the Q’uran and strictly observing Islam. Etc. I didn’t say my religion’s teachings were the only special ones. I said that must be studied as they were meant to be. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/39 "2005-02-10T02:57:59Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > But, he thinks he is and according to you ‘that’s all that matters’. > Sure it is. See post # 24 of this thread. > I imagined post #24? > I never claimed to be objective about people crapping on my religion. But I’m objective when people like you are deliberately, maliciously putting words in my mouth. Just because you didn’t understand my reference to jeff, you think you can say > [@](#): > > But, he thinks he is and according to you ‘that’s all that matters’. That was not in reference to someone carrying ants to study christianity but to someone sincerely studying the kabballah. Also I never said you claimed to be objective about anything. If fact, you are showing us you are having difficulty staying objective. Again I recommend a chill pill, you’re losing it. I’m not crapping on your religion, and if that’s what you think you have some difficulties with discerning reality from fantasy. I will not be drawn into an immature argument of “you said/I said” with you. I don’t know what your personal problem is, but I will not be drawn into it. If you want to debate, fine; but that doesn’t seem to be your objective. If you want to whine, call names and play grade-school games, count me out. I’ve got better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![EvanS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@EvanS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvanS)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786/40 "2005-02-10T03:03:26Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Ladies and gentleman, I present the Post #24 dancers! > yes I am superior. Better hurry up with that chill pill. And after it takes effect, please consider growing up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-kabbalah-and-celebs/288786.md?page=3)