# Ridiculous M\*A\*S\*H hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105 "2011-04-04T01:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/21 "2011-04-04T17:17:41Z")
Mahaloth: > [@](#): > > Somehow, we are to believe that while everyone(I mean everyone) drank, all the surgeons managed to time it so no wounded were coming in. Or they managed to moderate themselves so that they’re never really incapacitated from it. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/22 "2011-04-04T17:23:55Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Mahaloth: > > Or they managed to moderate themselves so that they’re never really incapacitated from it. Except for all the episodes when one or more of them care barely stand up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/23 "2011-04-04T17:36:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Of course, according to the show, in one of the early episodes, it is clearly stated that there are two shifts of surgeons, as Hawkeye is appointed Chief Surgeon over both. We just never see them, as we never see the other shifts on the Enterprise. It is understood that they generally hit the booze after the shift is over, and they roll out to do triage, not operate. This doesn’t pass the smell test-when casualties are rolling in nonstop, everyone in the camp will be part of the operating chain, including all the doctors. These phantom personnel would be seen and interacted with on a regular basis if they existed. On the Enterprise several people were capable of manning the bridge during routine ops-Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, even Geordi. They could easily rotate the first four out on 6 hour shifts. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/24 "2011-04-04T19:13:06Z")
> [@](#): > > War is hell. No, war is war and Hell is Hell, and of the two, war is worse. Let me ask you, Father: Who is in Hell? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/25 "2011-04-04T19:54:11Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No one gets ice cream. Nope. Hawkeye gets a beer, and Radar gets a Grape Nehi. Realizing that Radar needs to grow up and Hawkeye needs to sober up, they swap drinks. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/26 "2011-04-04T20:30:04Z")
So nobody thinks it’s just clear and obvious gender bias? Men need to drink to cope with the stress, so we make excuses for them that they obviously must be only drinking off-duty, but women, even off duty nurses, shouldn’t drink at all, ever? I don’t remember this episode, as the show ended when I was pretty young, but the vague impressions left in my memory tell me the whole show was nothing but horribly misogynistic. Major Houlihan was referred to as “Hot Lips?” How very denigrating and disrespectful, considering she outranked most of the guys she worked with. Seems like the women – all nurses – were treated like T & A/eye candy and the men – all the docs – did all the important saving of lives and such. I watch old reruns of shows I used to love as a kid in the 70s and I just cringe sometimes. Archie Bunker is another one that sends me into histrionic rants. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/27 "2011-04-04T20:34:00Z")
Wrong. The nurses drank as well. Hot-Lips had a flask she kept handy for “emergencies,” and the other nurses were often seen in the O-Club or with Hawkeye and some moonshine. As for the misogyny…you see what you want to see. Hot-Lips got her name in the movie, for very good reasons. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/28 "2011-04-04T20:45:53Z")
spifflog: > [@](#): > > Except for all the episodes when one or more of them care barely stand up. But those are the out-of-ordinary circumstances (Hawkeye feeling guilty about Radar; Charles feeling useless when the young surgeon shows him up; BJ upset over his daughter calling Radar “Daddy”), not the routine drinking that they do in their leisure time. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/29 "2011-04-04T20:54:04Z")
[QUOTE=Dogzilla] I don’t remember this episode, as the show ended when I was pretty young, but the vague impressions left in my memory tell me the whole show was nothing but horribly misogynistic. [/QUOTE] Something tells me you would like the movie even less. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/30 "2011-04-04T20:56:05Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Major Houlihan was referred to as “Hot Lips?” How very denigrating and disrespectful, considering she outranked most of the guys she worked with. Towards the end of the series, she was practically a poster child for feminism. At least in some episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/31 "2011-04-04T20:59:42Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > So nobody thinks it’s just clear and obvious gender bias? Men need to drink to cope with the stress, so we make excuses for them that they obviously must be only drinking off-duty, but women, even off duty nurses, shouldn’t drink at all, ever? > > I don’t remember this episode, as the show ended when I was pretty young, but the vague impressions left in my memory tell me the whole show was nothing but horribly misogynistic. Major Houlihan was referred to as “Hot Lips?” How very denigrating and disrespectful, considering she outranked most of the guys she worked with. Seems like the women – all nurses – were treated like T & A/eye candy and the men – all the docs – did all the important saving of lives and such. Oh hell yeah, and it’s only been half-corrected since then. Women characters are allowed to do important life-saving things, but they still better look like glamour models or sexpots while doing it. I still cringe watching today’s TV. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/32 "2011-04-04T21:01:52Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Mahaloth: > > Or they managed to moderate themselves so that they’re never really incapacitated from it. I actually think that it’s a hold-over from the movie that didn’t translate well to TV. In the movie (and the book it was based upon), the 4077th is quite a bit larger, with more doctors, nurses, medics, and everyone else, than we normally see on the screen. So there were down-times, and shift rotations, in which personnel could somewhat safely tie one on and not have to worry about being drunk on duty. As well, (IIRC) it was implied in the book that there were rotations between the MASH units themselves, in which one or another unit would catch the brunt of the wounded from an action, and the other would handle the overflow and other routine MASH-type business. This was never adequately edxplained in either the movie or the TV series. But I do take the OPs point about what appears to be hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/33 "2011-04-04T22:00:52Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Oh hell yeah, and it’s only been half-corrected since then. **Women characters are allowed to do important life-saving things, but they still better look like glamour models or sexpots while doing it.** I still cringe watching today’s TV. And this is a problem why? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/34 "2011-04-04T22:03:41Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Whatever became of the still? It is no longer there in the later seasons, is it? I wonder when it went away; I don’t recall any to-do made of it (I do remember the boys having to dismantle it once, but only for one episode). The still is definitely around throughout the run of the series. [Here you go](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/general%20stuff/mash_still.gif), from the last regular episode (S11 ep 15, “As Time Goes By”). This message brought to you by Pedantics Inc. 🙂 BTW - **Dogzilla** , Archie Bunker makes you cringe? He’s _supposed_ to make you cringe – the stuff he was saying was (by and large) considered egregious even in the early- to mid-seventies. M_A_S\*H doesn’t ping my misogynist radar (pardon the pun) at all, particularly once the Henry years were over. I’m a heathen in that I don’t really like the first three years of the show nearly as much as my favorite years (4 - 7). ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/35 "2011-04-04T22:06:59Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Major Houlihan was referred to as “Hot Lips?” How very denigrating and disrespectful, considering she outranked most of the guys she worked with. Again, this disappeared in the later seasons. In those episodes, she was always “Margaret,” and her relationship with Hawkeye and BJ went from bitterly antagonistic to cooperative and respectful (with maybe a little mild joshing from those rascally doctors). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/36 "2011-04-04T22:16:15Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I don’t remember this episode, as the show ended when I was pretty young, but the vague impressions left in my memory tell me the whole show was nothing but horribly misogynistic. Major Houlihan was referred to as “Hot Lips?” How very denigrating and disrespectful, considering she outranked most of the guys she worked with. As **kenobi 65** pointed out, this was the 50s and that was probably an accurate attitude to portray. I may not be remembering correctly but I think it was mentioned(book?) that Houlihan was only chain-of command with respect to the nurses. Also, i think the doctors were basically “courtesy” officers, they had no real command authority. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/37 "2011-04-05T00:06:32Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The entire investigation into this nurse’s potential drinking problem was initiate based solely on the fact that Klinger saw her hammered late at night (and off duty) in the supply tent. Klinger and Potter - who knew nothing of her drinking history - were _very_ concerned. But she had handed Klinger the wrong blood and had seemed confused(drunk). Potter decides to ask Margaret about it. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/38 "2011-04-05T00:24:47Z")
It only seems hypocritical because you’re comparing the rules from the end of a series run with the beginning. After years of making jokes about people drinking and being semi-fictional, even to the point of Hawkeye and Charles passing out mid surgery (I think Charles was drunk – he may have been high, or maybe that was the food poisoning one) they decided to do a “very-special episode” about alcoholism, probably after some newspaper did an op-ed on how the show set a bad example. So they cobble a clunky story about what they wanted to say, then reverted to goofy booze jokes the next episode. Just like Star Trek: The Next Generation, with the warp engines damage subspace episode. You all know what I mean. They decide to no longer travel at high warp except for emergencies. Then the next episode, they mention that the mission is an emergency, so they can exceed it. Then they don’t mention it at all for a couplea episodes, then the series ends. Seems more a mockery of environmentalism, it’s such an afterthought. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/39 "2011-04-05T00:34:51Z")
Missed edit window … As another example, you can probe the deep meaning of how, in the final episode of Happy Days, Dad praises his two wonderful children. He forgot Chuck. I didn’t notice, I’d forgotten Chuck. The writers forgot Chuck. A couplea of people at TV Guide remembered and made some jokes. No, Chuck didn’t die in 'Nam, join the Hare Krishnahs, or anything else. You simply can’t hold a long running series to it’s original premise. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105/40 "2011-04-05T00:43:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > …Today, it’s a whole new world. I don’t even risk one lousy beer at a restaurant anymore. Thirty years ago, me and my friends always ordered a pitcher of beer at Pizza Hut to split among several people. It’s pretty much zero tolerance these days. At least as far as I’m concerned, I’m not rolling the dice on any alcohol in public. Do you have a job for which you have to be particularly careful about alcohol abuse, or the perception of it? Or are you just wary of being stopped for DUI on your way home? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-m-a-s-h-hypocrisy/577105.md?page=3)