# Ridiculous technology needed to open bank account. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 18, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591 "2020-01-18T00:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/41 "2020-01-19T05:57:36Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I wonder how many Under-40s have or actually use a checking account. Probably most of them. Some people are unbanked of course, and I suppose some people just have a savings account, but a checking account is still the standard way to bank even if you don’t use checks. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/42 "2020-01-19T06:56:06Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …I don’t know any so called millennials who use Zelle, it’s all Venmo (which sucks but is the standard). Split checks is like 75% of the use. Yeah, I’m not sure I’ve heard of Zelle before. But when I split the bill with younger friends it’s getting to be a pain, because they don’t use cash, and i don’t use Venmo, Google Wallet, or Paypal. Well, I do use Paypal, but I don’t like to use it for stuff like that. Anyway, most of my friends have gone all-electronic, but I’ve never heard of any of them using Zelle. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/43 "2020-01-19T08:28:24Z")
I’d say it’s more like, your bank uses Zelle. For the coupla people I occasionally have reasons to send or receive $ electronically, we do it thru our bank’s app. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/44 "2020-01-19T12:07:58Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > There are two limits on ATM withdrawals: The limit that your bank puts on your card and the limit that the operator of the ATM imposes. > > The typical non-bank ATM has a $400 limit… > The … limit … imposed by the issuer of your ATM card. The limit is typically $500 or less per day… > Being able to transfer money to a stranger’s account is very rare … Thanks. This confirms what I already guessed: That Thailand’s practice, where ability to withdraw $2000 per day, or to transfer that amount to a stranger’s account is the norm, is quite different from U.S. practice. Especially since $2000 is relatively a lot, considering the much lower wage levels here. AFAIK the only ATM limit is when it runs out of banknotes. IIRC a bank officer might have mentioned even higher limits were possible, but I’ve never heard of lower limits. Of course the ATMs do get a work-out. Even large purchases (new cars, real estate) are often settled with piles of banknotes here! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/45 "2020-01-19T18:11:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Especially since $2000 is relatively a lot, considering the much lower wage levels here. AFAIK the only ATM limit is when it runs out of banknotes. I’m pretty sure limits on the ATM operator side in the US are related to this - a machine that allows $2000 withdrawals is likely to run out of cash more often than one that allows a maximum of $500 to be withdrawn at a time. As far as checks being common in the US- I pay pretty much everything I can electronically , but there are still things where neither electronic transfers or cash work well. Let’s say I’m giving my niece a wedding gift- I’m certainly not going to put a few hundred in cash in a card, I’m not thrilled about sending it through Venmo, and I _can’t_ send it through Venmo if she only uses Zelle. Same thing if I want to buy a ticket to a retirement or holiday party at work - if an organizer works in my office, I’ll give cash, otherwise, I’m mailing a check except for the one party with Venmo payment information. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/46 "2020-01-19T18:52:51Z")
To clarify: Venmo is an app that you sign up for and use to send money to friends. It’s a “social” account, which tells all your other friend who you paid and what the memo was (not dollar amounts). That feature is incredibly stupid, so I put every transaction on private. You have to attach a bank account but if someone pays you and you later make a payment, the money is taken from your Venmo account before touching your checking. It’s a terrible, buggy app but most people I know from roughly 28 to 45 use it so it’s somewhat necessary. You sign up for Zelle by having a participating bank account. Apparently there’s an app but I’ve never used it, you can go through your bank’s website or app to send money. It is designed to facilitate inter-bank transfers. Is your average Thai person, living in a city but not a huge expat area, likely to use the ATM as much as someone in the US? I wonder if the norm is rarer large transactions than grabbing $20 for lunch on the way to work. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/47 "2020-01-19T21:27:01Z")
People in Japan regularly carry, and use, large amounts of cash. As opposed to Sweden, Korea, etc. where people think the various apps are cool. It’s all a matter of habit (and what the local people you are paying will accept). ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/48 "2020-01-19T21:39:14Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Most people use Venmo. It goes into your Venmo account then takes a few days if you want to transfer to your bank account. But for actual bank transfers, most banks are members of an alliance called Zelle, you send via email address. I think the transfer amount is something like $5000 per day. > > How so? I only know old people, curmudgeon store owners who are too cheap to pay credit card fees, and personal rent. I write maybe 1 per year or two. > Edit: I realize that’s anecdote, but my experience witnessing across generations. A lot of people I know don’t have Venmo. But then I deal with a lot of people in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s. My mother-in-law, in her 80s, has probably never used the Internet in her life. Besides, those “curmudgeon store owners” mean at least two checks per month: One to my son’s piano teacher, and one to my cleaning lady. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/49 "2020-01-20T17:19:05Z")
> [@Calavera](#): > > Natwest Ah, TwatWest, the people whose marketing concept seems to be “Barclays and Lloyds are terrible, so we’ll be worse”. Fuck them. > [@septimus](#): > > Thanks. This confirms what I already guessed: That Thailand’s practice, where ability to withdraw $2000 per day, or to transfer that amount to a stranger’s account is the norm, is quite different from U.S. practice. As far as I can tell any pretty much any banking practice introduced in the 21st century is quite different from U.S. practice. All 3 countries I have regular contact with have the ability to electronically send money from one bank account to any other bank account in that country, for free, pretty much instantly. In each country there is also a national app which lets people send money from their mobile number to another mobile number using linked bank accounts, either for free or for a trivial cost like 25c per use. I think all 3 now also have the ability to pay directly in accepting physcial stores via the app. The swedish app can also be used as a payment method in ecommerce sites and the UK app can be linked to contactless fobs, wristbands or coffecups(!!!) so you can use those to pay for things from your bank account. The UK is pretty backwards with cheques and so on but even they seem light years ahead of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/50 "2020-01-20T17:27:28Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Umm… > I think all the luddites here (including the OP) misunderstand what a “live selfie” is. > It’s not a real-time selfie. > It’s a quick motion capture image, usually under 5 seconds or so. The bank wants to know that you are alive, and not a picture of a a picture. And how is that quick motion capture image supposed to be made? Is it supposed to be done by the bank, or by the person who is opening the account? It seems to me that the OP did not give a good description of what the BANK means by “live selfie”. Nor did the OP explain why it is a difficult thing to do. I have a feeling that the real problem is a miscommunication between the bank and the OP. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/51 "2020-01-21T17:11:22Z")
Well Natwest themselves just describe it as a “selfie” and wibble that “Using artificial intelligence, real-time biometric checks confirm the customer’s selfie matches the image in their photographic ID”. So the idea seems to be that the poor deluded fool wanting to subject themselves to being a NatWest customer sends them a picture. However for this to be anything more than “send us a picture of a stolen photo ID, and a picture resembling the person the stolen photo ID actually belongs to” there must be some kind of time-sensitive element to it. However as one would expect from a UK bank they are completely silent on the specifics of exactly how this is supposed to work. Startlingly, the best description I found was in the financial pages of The Sun which actually shows a picture of the actual screen in the Natwest App which you use to take and upload this magic selfie. If this app is anything like the Barclays one it will be a rancid buggy bloated mess reminiscent of Win98 on a bad day. Interestingly the screenshot included in the article looks like it could actually be from 1998… > **[NatWest lets users open an account with a selfie - so you don't have to go in...](https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/9338289/natwest-account-with-a-selfie/)** > > NATWEST now uses artificial intelligence to allow customers to open an account using a selfie – so you don’t even have to go in branch. It could mean opening an account takes as little … ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/52 "2020-01-21T22:01:50Z")
> [@digs](#): > > … what’s next, you’re gonna tell me I have to tape the vinyl album of _The Yes Album_ but reorder the tracks to try to fit it on one cassette? According to my teenager this is currently an in-thing - he asked for a boombox for his birthday and makes mixtapes. Apparently due to a combo of _Guardians of the Galaxy_ and _Stranger Things_. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/53 "2020-01-21T23:17:13Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > There are two limits on ATM withdrawals: The limit that your bank puts on your card and the limit that the operator of the ATM imposes. > > The typical non-bank ATM has a $400 limit. That’s twenty $20 bills. I said typical, each owner chooses their own limit for each ATM. That’s basically because the owner of an ATM doesn’t want one guy to come by and drain their machine. You can often get around this limit by making multiple transactions. And if you choose to make multiple transactions, the ATM owner charges a separate fee for each transaction, so this basically increases their revenue. There is sometimes also a Bank limit, as I learned the last time I tried to buy a car for cash on the weekend. I spent about an hour traipsing around to different ATMs at different banks because even banks with multiple ATMs and multiple locations cut me off after whatever their limit was. My bank refunds ATM fees, so all this cost me was some time. Wouldn’t surprise me if requiring a modern smartphone to open an account is actually a second bonus for the bank. The OP may be an outlier here, but I’d bet good money that “doesn’t have a smart phone” is strongly correlated with “Not a profitable banking customer.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/54 "2020-01-22T09:34:37Z")
Yeah, just too bad about all those retired old folks with lots of money and just flip phones, right? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/55 "2020-01-22T13:40:59Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > And how is that quick motion capture image supposed to be made? Is it supposed to be done by the bank, or by the person who is opening the account? > > It seems to me that the OP did not give a good description of what the BANK means by “live selfie”. Nor did the OP explain why it is a difficult thing to do. I have a feeling that the real problem is a miscommunication between the bank and the OP. Setting aside the issue of whether the OP is confused, “Live Selfies” can be taken with a newer iPhone, and presumably with Android. They are all the rage with the hip kids. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/56 "2020-01-22T14:54:11Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The DEFAULT daily ATM withdrawal is usually $300 or $400 to limit fraud. You can request a higher limit if you want. In Europe it seems to be either 500 or 1000 {currency units}. Germany: 1000 Euro. GB: usually 500 GBP. Poland: 500 or 1000 zloty, which is 20-25% the value of $ / Euro / GBP. You can sometimes get more by asking the bank to raise the limit. But it’s all debit cards now, and some Smartphone payments. There are also limits on online transfers, again to prevent fraud. You can set those limits yourself. The regulations for online payments changed very recently, there is a lot more authentication with callback to a Smartphone and inputting the code that they send, even to log into your bank account. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/57 "2020-01-22T15:33:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, just too bad about all those retired old folks with lots of money and just flip phones, right? Retired old folks with flip phones probably aren’t their biggest users of online banking accounts. They might lose a couple, the rest will go to the branch office and open an account there. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/58 "2020-01-22T17:47:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > They might lose a couple, the rest will go to the branch office and open an account there. I think that’s “the rest will go to the branch office and be ignored for a half hour before walking out” Our OP is not having a good banking week. For the record, even though I’m not quite a boomer, I was shocked to find how popular Venmo is. I’m involved with a non-profit that sells Christmas trees for fundraising. This year, they transitioned from Cash/CC to Cash/CC/Venmo, and the Venmo receipts outpaced the Credit Cards. Venmo turned out to be more convoluted than Credit, but people jumped at the chance to Venmo us the money. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/59 "2020-01-22T19:03:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, just too bad about all those retired old folks with lots of money and just flip phones, right? It is bad for them. I don’t see that the bank is obligated to do business with them, though. I have a smartphone, but there are still plenty of businesses in the world who won’t deign to do business with me because I don’t have enough money to be a profitable customer for them. So it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591/60 "2020-01-22T19:07:37Z")
The selfie is pretty clearly to avoid people trying to open bank accounts online with stolen ID. I’m guessing NatWest means live in the sense of ‘at this very moment’, not live as in the 2-3 second photo-gif hybrids iphones and some (all?) androids can take. The youtuber Tom Scott talked about making an account with a bank that required him to send in a short video waving his hand to demonstrate that he was a real person. 21st century, man. Using venmo instead of a CC means no handing your card off to another person and no standing there awkwardly while they wave their phone/tablet around trying to get a better wifi signal. And yeah, it makes splitting the check at restaurants easier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-technology-needed-to-open-bank-account/846591.md?page=4)