# Ridiculously small entrees at very high end restaurants: true?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 4, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289 "2009-11-04T16:26:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/21 "2009-11-04T19:53:40Z")
In my experience, there is a big difference between high-end restaurants and super-high-end restaurants, in terms of how they approach courses and portion sizes. \*\*Emerils \*\*is a high-end New American type of restaurant - fewer courses, decent-sized portions. A place like the \*\*French Laundry \*\*in Napa is more of a super-high-end [nouvelle cuisine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouvelle_cuisine)sorta place (wiki link). I have eaten there and been served (absolutely wonderful) short ribs where they brought out a clean white bowl bigger than a pasta collander with the short ribs, about the size of a hockey puck, sitting waaay down in the middle of the bowl. Very much in line with what the OP is asking about…
But you know what? The ribs were so rich and good that I found myself satisfied - oh, and the other courses helped, too…
---
### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/22 "2009-11-04T21:13:08Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#):
>
> It depends on the restaurant, but it isn’t uncommon.
>
> If you ate [here](http://www.seaisland.com/Dining/Georgian-Room.asp), those are the kinds of portions you could expect.
Judging by the second picture, that place is either serving a sauteed twinkie or a stick of butter in caramel sauce. Either one sounds delicious right about now.
---
### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/23 "2009-11-04T21:22:34Z")
I went to a 4 star restaurant recently, and the entree was incredibly filling. My wife couldn’t finish it. However, the appetizers were incredibly expensive (e.g. $7 per small raw oyster, $2 per shrimp in a shrimp cocktail, etc.) I have noticed this trend in many restaurants, not just the 4 star variety.
---
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/24 "2009-11-04T21:24:54Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#):
>
> If you ate [here](http://www.seaisland.com/Dining/Georgian-Room.asp), those are the kinds of portions you could expect.
Am I the only person that thinks _“refined Southern” cuisine_ is a contradiction in terms? 😃
---
### Author:  [@satoridt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/satoridt)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/25 "2009-11-04T21:28:14Z")
> [@DanBlather](#):
>
> I never understood that trope. When I have eaten in Europe, and ordered a European style meal, I am always more than full when done. And I ain’t no dainty eater. It’s just that high end and/or European meals are different. In Italy you might order some sort of appetizer or soup, followed by pasta or risotto, then an main course, maybe a side of vegetables, then cheese or desert, then maybe an aperitif with biscotti. A meal takes an hour or longer, you eat slowly, the courses come out well spaced, and you enjoy spending time with friends or family.
>
> When you go to a high end restaurant in the US they expect you to have the table for a couple of hours, or maybe the entire night. The servings are smaller so you can order several courses. The rare times I can afford it and go all out, I want to be able to try several things on the menu. If I want a huge entree I go to a steakhouse. That’s good too, just different.
So how much does the whole experience cost? Is each course priced differently? (never been to a high end restaurant :()
---
### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/26 "2009-11-04T21:31:22Z")
> [@satoridt](#):
>
> So how much does the whole experience cost? Is each course priced differently? (never been to a high end restaurant :()
As a general rule, expect to spend $50 per person, plus 25% for wine/alcohol, plus another 10-20% for a tip.
$100 would be the bare minimum for 2 people, no desert or drinks, but can go as high as $200.
But, that’s just me. I would scan the menu to get a rough average of the entree price. If it’s over $50, I probably won’t stay. The most expensive places I go to charge about $35 per seasonal entree, while on average, I usually get $25 dinners.
If the entrees average ~$25, expect to spend $100 for 2 people, $120 with tip, $150 with drinks, maybe even more with desert.
---
### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/27 "2009-11-04T21:49:09Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> As a general rule, expect to spend $50 per person, plus 25% for wine/alcohol, plus another 10-20% for a tip.
>
> $100 would be the bare minimum for 2 people, no desert or drinks, but can go as high as $200.
>
> But, that’s just me. I would scan the menu to get a rough average of the entree price. If it’s over $50, I probably won’t stay. The most expensive places I go to charge about $35 per seasonal entree, while on average, I usually get $25 dinners.
>
> If the entrees average ~$25, expect to spend $100 for 2 people, $120 with tip, $150 with drinks, maybe even more with desert.
“Very high end restaurants” are going to be WAY more expensive than this. Alinea, for example, is considered one of the top restaurants in the country, and one of the top 10 or 15 in the world. They have two dinner choices if I recall correctly - the 15 course and the 22 course. The 15 course meal is $150/person. The 22 course is $225/person. That’s with dessert, but no drinks. I think I remember reading that tasters of wine chosen to go with each course runs about another $125/person.
So altogether, you could easily be talking as much as $850 for two, including drinks, dinner, and tip.
---
### Author:  [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/28 "2009-11-04T21:50:43Z")
The French Laundry was mentioned uptread. In _The French Laundry Cookbook_ Thomas Keller explains why the portions are so diminutive the higher up the culinary chain you go.
You really only taste and savor the first few bites of any dish. After that, it’s just taking on fuel. If you’re going to a restaurant run by a master chef, you should want to fully experience each bite. As a result, the big portions at The French Laundry and restaurants of a similar nature are about five bites, but you get 20 different courses. That makes up the same volume of food you might expect at any restaurant but gives you the opportunity to truly taste and appreciate every bite.
---
### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/29 "2009-11-04T22:02:44Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> Am I the only person that thinks _“refined Southern” cuisine_ is a contradiction in terms? 😃
Think of it like “country French.”
---
### Author:  [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/30 "2009-11-04T22:05:02Z")
> [@Athena](#):
>
> “Very high end restaurants” are going to be WAY more expensive than this. Alinea, for example, is considered one of the top restaurants in the country, and one of the top 10 or 15 in the world. They have two dinner choices if I recall correctly - the 15 course and the 22 course. The 15 course meal is $150/person. The 22 course is $225/person. That’s with dessert, but no drinks. I think I remember reading that tasters of wine chosen to go with each course runs about another $125/person.
>
> So altogether, you could easily be talking as much as $850 for two, including drinks, dinner, and tip.
Right. No offense, **Superhal** , but “as high as $200” is not a high-end restaurant. The tasting menu at [Joël Robuchon](http://www.mgmgrand.com/restaurants/joel-robuchon-french-restaurant.aspx) will run you $385 per person. That’s just for the food, no drinks or tip.
Here’s what you get for your $385, if anyone’s interested:
[ul]
[li] **Le Caviar** [/li] en infusion de corail anisée, en surprise
_Caviar on a fennel cream served as a surprise_
[li] **Le Foie Gras** [/li] en duo mêlé de pomme ratte comme un carpaccio aux copeaux de truffe blanche
_Carpaccio of foie gras and potatoes, covered with white truffle shavings_
[li] **Les Champignons** [/li] une fine feuille croustillante aux cèpes en gondole, une royale tremblotante au cappuccino de persil plat, thé de matsutakés au gingembre
_Crispy toast topped with cepes mushroom, trembling parsley royal and ginger matsutake tea_
[li] **La Saint-Jacques** [/li] la noix poêlée, lait de coco épicé et un condiment de coriandre fraîche
_Seared scallops, spiced coconuts milk and fresh coriander condiment_
[li] **Les Crustacés** [/li] le homard rôti au curry et fines graines de chou-fleur, l’oursin à la purée de pomme de terre au café “Blue Mountain” torréfié, la langoustine truffée et cuite en ravioli à l’émincé de chou vert
_Roasted lobster with green curry, Uni on mashed potato with roasted coffee beans, truffled langoustine ravioli with chopped cabbage_
[li] **Le Riz** [/li] pilaf à la saveur d’une “paëlla” avec une fricassée de cuisses de grenouille et une rapée de tartuffi di Alba
_Paëlla style pilaf rice, fricassee of frog legs and shaved tartuffi di Alba_
[li] **La Châtaigne** [/li] un fin velouté soyeux sur un voile virtuel de lard fumé
_Delicate chestnut cream with smoked lardons foam_
[li] **Le Bar** [/li] poêlé à la citronnelle avec une étuvée de jeunes poireaux
_Pan-fried sea bass with a lemon grass and stewed baby leeks_
[li] **Le Veau** [/li] en côte cuit au plat avec un gel d’herbes fraîches et une mêlée de courgette à la pistache
_Sautéed veal chop with herb gelée, zucchini and fresh pistachios_
[li] **Le Soja** [/li] les jeunes pousses cuites comme un risotto aux zestes de citron vert et ciboulette
_Risotto of soybeans sprouts, lime zest and chives_
[li] **Les Fruits Exotiques** [/li] en cocktail aux parfums des îles, sorbet au yogourt
_Exotic fruit cocktail, yogurt sorbet_
[li] **La Fuji** [/li] pomme confite au granité Calvados, crème à la confiture de lait
_Fuji apple confit with Calvados granite, dulce de leche_
[li] **Le Moka - Le Thé** [/li] escortés de mignardises
[/ul]
---
### Author:  [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/31 "2009-11-04T22:07:06Z")
Gale Gand, a pastry chef who used to have a Food Network show where she made batches of the most mundane cupcakes imaginable, has a restaurant called Tru that I saw featured on some show. Tru served up odd looking, artsy, sparse plates of high end grub, for about $200 per diner.
It is my theory that if you have $200 to spend on three stalks of asparagus and a couple of sauteed scallops, that means you are a model, trophy wife, celebrity, or Mrs. Donald Trump. You go to such a restaurant to be seen, and since you probably live on 800 calories a day or have an eating disorder, a token amount of overpriced food in the latest hot spot suits you to a T.
Me? It’s my dream to go to Amish country for 7 sours and 7 sweets, and take away a doggie bag that just barely fits into the refrigerator!😃
---
### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/32 "2009-11-04T22:19:14Z")
I checked that Alinea link. While the food is definitely artfully presented and artistic in appearance, I don’t find a single of those pictures appetizing. So it wouldn’t matter if they serve me 25 courses, because I’m probably not eating any of them.
I’ll take a plate full of food I recognize any day.
My one fine dining experience annoyed me more than anything. I could handle the meals coming out in courses and the presentation being part of the experience. I was okay with the weird sauces and giving them a try. But when the waiter is trying to convince me that I should get my steak prepared a different way than I want it, that ticked me off. If I want a goddamn rare steak, I’ll ask for it rare. When I say I want a well done steak, I don’t mean give me a filet mignon charred on the outside and bloody on the inside (yes, it was).
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/33 "2009-11-04T23:49:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I checked that Alinea link. While the food is definitely artfully presented and artistic in appearance, I don’t find a single of those pictures appetizing. So it wouldn’t matter if they serve me 25 courses, because I’m probably not eating any of them.
Heck, several of those, I couldn’t figure out _how_ one is expected to eat them.
---
### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/34 "2009-11-05T00:09:14Z")
> [@MrSquishy](#):
>
> Right. No offense, **Superhal** , but “as high as $200” is not a high-end restaurant.
Heh.
Long story short: how are “4 star restaurants” defined in your area. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/35 "2009-11-05T00:09:33Z")
> [@Athena](#):
>
> So altogether, you could easily be talking as much as $850 for two, including drinks, dinner, and tip.
Most of my cars didnt cost much more than that. Some less.
---
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/36 "2009-11-05T00:31:52Z")
> [@MrSquishy](#):
>
> Right. No offense, **Superhal** , but “as high as $200” is not a high-end restaurant. The tasting menu at [Joël Robuchon](http://www.mgmgrand.com/restaurants/joel-robuchon-french-restaurant.aspx) will run you $385 per person. That’s just for the food, no drinks or tip.
>
> Here’s what you get for your $385, if anyone’s interested:
>
> \
So, for my $400, I get three things I would put into my mouth.
Pass.
I’ll stick to my “not so high end” places like Stratta, Mesa Grill and Olives. For $250/couple, we can eat very well. And real food, too.
---
### Author:  [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/37 "2009-11-05T00:39:44Z")
> [@salinqmind](#):
>
> . . . that means you are a model, trophy wife, celebrity, or Mrs. Donald Trump.
Isn’t that a bit redundant?
---
### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/38 "2009-11-05T00:46:18Z")
> [@salinqmind](#):
>
> It is my theory that if you have $200 to spend on three stalks of asparagus and a couple of sauteed scallops, that means you are a model, trophy wife, celebrity, or Mrs. Donald Trump. You go to such a restaurant to be seen, and since you probably live on 800 calories a day or have an eating disorder, a token amount of overpriced food in the latest hot spot suits you to a T.
I don’t think this is true at all. I know, for example, a group of four young guys, all of them working in kitchens in our very small town. They were all way into food. I don’t think any of them made more than about $25K a year, and I doubt more than 2 of them made that much.
They went to Charlie Trotter’s in Chicago and sat at the kitchen table for one of their birthdays a few years ago. $225 a head, not including drinks or tip. Or transportation to Chicago and a bed to sleep in, for that matter.
I’ve spent quite a bit on dinners as well. Not every night. Heck, not once a year. But you better believe I’ll drop $200 a plate on dinner if I have the means and desire to do so.
Contrast that with how many people have hobbies that are WAY more expensive. How many people have motorcycles? Most motorcycle, even used ones, cost many hundreds of dollars a month when you add up gas, a monthly payment, insurance, etc. Ski bums drop hundreds of dollars a year for lift tickets, accommodations, and equipment. Heck, I know parents who pay a ton of money a year for their kids to participate in sports or the cheerleading team or whatever. Lots of people manage to pull these and other costly hobbies off without being “a model, trophy wife, celebrity, or Mrs. Donald Trump.”
Food is a hobby for many of us. I cook 90% of the time, and save us a lot of money making things from scratch. And yes, I have reservations at Alinea in a few weeks (guess why I’ve been using it as an example? :D)
I can totally understand why people who are not into cooking as a hobby take one look at that menu and are not interested. But those of us who are interested are neither the super-rich or the super-crazy. It’s all a matter of what hobbies & interests you have. Mine happens to be food.
---
### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/39 "2009-11-05T00:49:02Z")
For comparison: my dinner at Le Manoir, for two, with half a bottle of wine, one kir royale and one beer, cost £300 ($495) not including tip.
My lunch for two at the Fat Duck, with only a half-bottle of wine, cost £350 ($578) not including tip. It was truly, truly, worth every penny, and my dining companion who isn’t as into crazy food as I am, agreed - she was totally blown away by the experience.
> [@salinqmind](#):
>
> It is my theory that if you have $200 to spend on three stalks of asparagus and a couple of sauteed scallops, that means you are a model, trophy wife, celebrity, or Mrs. Donald Trump. You go to such a restaurant to be seen, and since you probably live on 800 calories a day or have an eating disorder, a token amount of overpriced food in the latest hot spot suits you to a T.
Your theory may be applicable to some people, but though I eat at some of the places you disparage, I do not fit your stereotype in any way at all. I save up a lot to do so, because I value it highly. Also, your categorization of the food available may be correct in some cases, but also perhaps ignores the astonishing creativity and skill of many of the practitioners of something that to me is high art and ground-breaking science, all rolled into one. And tastes amazing too.
ETA: **Athena** , can I come with you!?
---
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289/40 "2009-11-05T00:51:56Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#):
>
> Think of it like “country French.”
Can’t. Country French is **good** (as opposed to hawt cewzine French, which ain’t.) 😃
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculously-small-entrees-at-very-high-end-restaurants-true/516289.md?page=3)