# Riding between stopped cars at a light on a motorcycle - legal? (paging JohnnyLA...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034 "2005-08-15T01:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/1 "2005-08-15T01:51:18Z")
I mean riding in between the cars to get to the front of a long line of stopped cars at a red light. I’ve done this (slowly and carefully) even when one of the cars in line at the red light is a police car - and the cop didn’t even give me a funny look. Is this something that’s legal, illegal, or “illegal but cops-don’t-enforce-it-like-driving-5-to-10-mph-over-the-speed-limit” ? Most riders seem to do it, here in LA at least. I know it’s _risky_ - car doors being opened, traffic suddenly starts moving, cars cutting across etc. - but is it _illegal_ ? I’m mainly interested in California. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/2 "2005-08-15T02:15:39Z")
According to the CHP, [lane splitting is legal](http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html): [/quote] Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner. [/quote] At a stop light? Well… I’ve never heard that it’s _not_ legal. And I assume that the laws on the streets are the same as the laws on the freeways. (Please no nitpicks. You know what I mean.) I’ve gone to the front at stop lights, but I’ve always wondered if the laws _were_ different on surface streets. Never got in trouble for it. The thing about traffic control signals is they change, so you have to be ready to make the appropriate move when it does. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/3 "2005-08-15T02:20:12Z")
> [@DarrenS](#): > > I mean riding in between the cars to get to the front of a long line of stopped cars at a red light. You just move in front of everyone? Doesn’t seem fair at best. I’m surprised there isn’t an “accident”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/4 "2005-08-15T02:23:29Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > According to the CHP, [lane splitting is legal](http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html): Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner. [/quote] At a stop light? Well… I’ve never heard that it’s _not_ legal. And I assume that the laws on the streets are the same as the laws on the freeways. (Please no nitpicks. You know what I mean.) I’ve gone to the front at stop lights, but I’ve always wondered if the laws _were_ different on surface streets. Never got in trouble for it. The thing about traffic control signals is they change, so you have to be ready to make the appropriate move when it does. [/QUOTE] [State Motorcycle Riding Laws](http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/PrintLaws.html) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/5 "2005-08-15T02:26:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You just move in front of everyone? Doesn’t seem fair at best. I’m surprised there isn’t an “accident”. 🙂 I’m not a biker. Bikers tell me, though, that there are some jerks who try to prevent them from “white lining.” As if some motorcycle going past them and getting way ahead and out of their way somehow short changes them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/6 "2005-08-15T02:33:24Z")
I had bikes when I was a kid, but why should I get in front when everyone else has to wait? My over blow sense of fairness used to get me in trouble with authority. Now it gets me in trouble with bikers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/7 "2005-08-15T02:39:11Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I’m not a biker. Bikers tell me, though, that there are some jerks who try to prevent them from “white lining.” As if some motorcycle going past them and getting way ahead and out of their way somehow short changes them. According to the link provided by **picunurse** only in California is that legal. And at a stop light it could cause you to have to sit through another red/green cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/8 "2005-08-15T02:40:16Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > [State Motorcycle Riding Laws](http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/PrintLaws.html) From the link: > [@](#): > > In California Only, lane splitting is legal. Motorcycles may drive between cars, but not on shoulders. 🙂 > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You just move in front of everyone? Doesn’t seem fair at best. I’m surprised there isn’t an “accident”. 🙂 Nothing unfair about it. Anyone (who is able to ride a motorcycle) can get a motorcycle and enjoy the many advantages they have over cars. Given motorcycles’ superior accelleration, it’s also safer to have them in front of you so that they can get out of your way, and so that you won’t be in theirs. I understand how people who are sitting in a cage stuck in traffic might feel it’s unfair, but it’s not the motorcyclist’s fault they’re in a car. > [@David Simmons](#): > > I’m not a biker. Bikers tell me, though, that there are some jerks who try to prevent them from “white lining.” As if some motorcycle going past them and getting way ahead and out of their way somehow short changes them. Exactly. The motorcycle has no effect on their being stuck in traffic. And yes, there are jerks who will try to squeeze a motorcyclist. One guy over a decade ago deliberately moved over to keep me from passing. When there was finally an opening I got by him. He honked his horn and flipped me off. Too bad for him he forgot about my rear-view mirror when he gave me the bird. The thwack was loud, and it _had_ to have hurt! The thing is that a motorcycle riding between traffic is going to be next to your car for a second or less. If you try to keep him from passing you’ll just raise your blood pressure and he’s going to pass you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/9 "2005-08-15T02:40:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I had bikes when I was a kid, but why should I get in front when everyone else has to wait? > My over blow sense of fairness used to get me in trouble with authority. Now it gets me in trouble with bikers. 🙂 I only think someone is unfair to me if they somehow disadvantage me to their advantage and I don’t see how some biker worming his or her way through traffic does that. That’s why they make ice cream in all those different flavors I guess. P.S. I also don’t fret too much if a cabbie gets in front. He’s trying to make a living and I’m just screwing around. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/10 "2005-08-15T02:42:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I had bikes when I was a kid, but why should I get in front when everyone else has to wait? > My over blow sense of fairness used to get me in trouble with authority. Now it gets me in trouble with bikers. 🙂 Bikers ride Harleys. I’m a _motorcyclist!_😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/11 "2005-08-15T02:43:14Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I only think someone is unfair to me if they somehow disadvantage me to their advantage and I don’t see how some biker worming his or her way through traffic does that. I agree with **David**. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/12 "2005-08-15T02:45:48Z")
So how about going to the head of the drive through at McDonalds? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/13 "2005-08-15T02:49:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So how about going to the head of the drive through at McDonalds? That’s different, because you are cutting in front of someone in line. Like cutting in line when you’re buying movie tickets or waiting to get on a ride at Disneyland. In traffic, you’re not taking anyone else’s position and you’ll be a quarter mile away from them before they get across the intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/14 "2005-08-15T02:56:14Z")
There is, BTW, a good reason for lane splitting – especially in a hot-weather environment. Back in the day, most bikes were air-cooled. You had to keep air flowing over the cylinder head(s) to keep them from overheating. I have two bikes, one air-cooled and the other liquid-cooled. During the summer the speed limit down by the beach goes down to 20 mph. Even though my YZF-R1 is liquid cooled, I see my temperature indicator rise and rise at such a low speed. It’s not made for it, and it needs the air over the radiator. (Not to mention that it needs a certain speed just to be able to steer.) Given the long tailbacks and hot weather in SoCal, there would probably be a lot of overheated bikes on the roads if they were forced to sit in traffic. Any vehicle at the side of the road results in slower traffic as people gawk. So allowing bikes to split lanes actually improves the traffic flow for _everybody_; not just the motorcyclists. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/15 "2005-08-15T03:10:46Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > One guy over a decade ago deliberately moved over to keep me from passing. When there was finally an opening I got by him. He honked his horn and flipped me off. Too bad for him he forgot about my rear-view mirror when he gave me the bird. The thwack was loud, and it _had_ to have hurt! You threw your mirror at the guy? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/16 "2005-08-15T03:14:43Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > You threw your mirror at the guy? I think Johnny’s mirror hit the guy’s hand as he passed. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/17 "2005-08-15T03:28:31Z")
‘Please remember to keep all body parts inside of the car until the ride comes to a full and complete stop.’ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/18 "2005-08-15T03:38:44Z")
It just sounds to me so much like a very convenient rationalization–cars are stuck in traffic, motorcycles aren’t. Cars can’t drive between other cars, motorcycles can. Cars have to wait their turn, motorcycles don’t. When I was a kid, I got yelled at when I cut in line. Any kind of line–not just to buy something. It’s rude. And, yes, I understand that this has nothing to do with the OP–you were asking if it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/19 "2005-08-15T03:40:40Z")
I always thought the term “lane splitting” only meant in _moving_ traffic, like on the freeway. Does it also apply to lines of traffic stopped at a light? If so, that means it’s legal to crawl up between the cars to the red light. And **JohnnyLA** is right: when I _do_ get to the front of the queue, when the light turns green I’m well clear and out of everyone’s way before the car drivers at the front have even thought about taking their foot of the brake or engaging the clutch. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034/20 "2005-08-15T07:03:55Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > It just sounds to me so much like a very convenient rationalization–cars are stuck in traffic, motorcycles aren’t. Cars can’t drive between other cars, motorcycles can. Cars have to wait their turn, motorcycles don’t. > > When I was a kid, I got yelled at when I cut in line. Any kind of line–not just to buy something. It’s rude. And, yes, I understand that this has nothing to do with the OP–you were asking if it’s legal. The difference between cutting through traffic on a motorcycle and cutting in other lines is that motorcycles do not cause any delay to the people they are cutting in front of. If more than 50% of the city road on motorcycles, then there could be a slight delay from all of them cutting ahead of cars in heavy traffic, but then I don’t see there being any heavy traffic in the first place (with so little cars.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-between-stopped-cars-at-a-light-on-a-motorcycle-legal-paging-johnnyla/317034.md?page=2)