# Riding my tail with highbeams on is a recipe to make me go slower, not faster... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697 "2003-11-28T07:51:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/301 "2003-12-12T01:53:22Z")
**lucwarm** , why do you think the OP was lying? His account seems perfectly reasonable to me. During this whole thread you have repeatedly stated that you don’t think **WW** was giving the tailgater an opportunity to pass. You have also stated that you think **WW** slowed down merely to retaliate. Why do you think **Windwalker** was lying when he wrote the OP? What inconsistencies are there? And please don’t say, “I just feel that he’s lying”. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/302 "2003-12-12T04:26:05Z")
Windwalker, I see you didn’t want someone else dictating your speed. The other driver could have easily passed you, regardless of whether or not it was legal. In your position, I would have simply changed the angle of reflection on all mirrors away from my sightline, and continued on. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/303 "2003-12-12T09:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **For what it’s worth, it seems a little much to say I’m flat out wrong. My position is based upon my opinion that the OP was not telling the truth in one of his posts. It seems to me it’s a matter of opinion.** Whatever. Allow me to amend my previous statement to: …In my opinion you are wrong and just too stubborn to admit it. In my opinion you are continuing the argument in the hopes of making the opposition give up in disgust at your disingenuous, lawyer tactics; allowing you to claim a rather tattered and pyrrhic victory. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*Also, I think you’re incorrect that I’ve faced unanimous opposition. \*\* Well, I think there were some people who had issues with the OP at the start of the thread. But I don’t see anyone agreeing with you after the OPer’s clarifying post. Show of hands for those agreeing with **Lucwarm** ’s arguments… Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/304 "2003-12-12T13:08:08Z")
It’s Alive… It’s ALIIIII HHHIIIIIVE!!! mwaaaah haaa ha HAAA!! Psst **GSV** no one in this thread agreed with him. Only one person on page one said he SORTOF felt like the OP MAY have been a little jerkish, IF he did it out of spite. Other than that it’s about 50-1. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/305 "2003-12-12T13:23:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **Am I to take it that you were posting stuff just to get a rise out of me?** No, just making a joke. > [@](#): > > \*\*Examples? \*\* You’ve been bashing people upside the head with your opinion for pretty much the entire thread. ---
**Author:** ![SeekingTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@SeekingTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekingTruth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/306 "2003-12-12T14:19:52Z")
Feasable to pass?!? 15 in a 55 zone and it can’t be passed? What the fuck kind of Green\_Party car that looks at Geo Metro’s as gas-hogs are you driving? Everyone’s an idiot/moron, etc. Which law school teaches these phrases as cognizent argumentative descriptors? I challenge that you are less than a lawyer, you purport to be one. Before any more legal challenges, please tell us which law school you are associated with. I call major BS on any claim to be a lawyer. The initial accusations are hereby invalid, since any lawyer would proudly state his education. This is now just funny. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/307 "2003-12-12T17:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*Or he could have later decided to put an improved spin on his story. > \*\* Not likely since he mentioned the vindictiveness in his original post. He did give more details later, but that is reasonable, since his fairly long OP couldn’t include everything, and he was not likely to anticipate the full reaction. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > Your conclusion doesn’t make a lot of sense. You think that any time a 5mph car can be passed, the same car can be passed if it’s going 15mph? > \*\* Well, yes, in most circumstances. Exceptions are if you are doing a stunt, or being an idiot and passing when there is oncoming traffic. It appears that neither is the case here. Given that we know the tailgater could go 50, there is no functional difference in this situation. Please demonstrate otherwise. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > You’ve got it backwards – my position is based on the fact that I doubt the OP’s story. As I’ve said before, if in fact he did give the tailgater a reasonable opportunity to pass, my position would be different. > \*\* And we have asked for evidence to support your position, and have gotten none. My statement stands. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > I’m not sure what your point is – but it seems to me that the OP, angered at being tailgated decided to slow down in order to punish and retaliate the tailgater. This is not inconsistent with his first post. In a later post, he decided, consciously or subconsciously, to put a better spin on events by suggesting that the tailgater had a reasonable opportunity to pass. > > Note that my scenario is not entirely consistent with the OP’s posts, which is unsurprising since I’ve already indicated my skepticism. However, it is more consistent with human nature. Just MHO of course. > \*\* No, he explicitly said in the first post that he slowed down because he was blinded by the tailgaters brights. He admitted that he took pleasure from doing it, but it was not the cause. Is it really human nature to act like an asshole when you are coming back from Thanksgiving dinner with your mother in the car? Or don’t you believe in the mother either? Hell, maybe he was ferrying the missing WMDs. When you start making stuff up, anything is possible. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > I’ve offered reasons for my skepticism. You may disagree with them, but that won’t make them go away. > \*\* Perhaps I missed them. Could you maybe give a logically consistent argument for both your skepticism and what happened? The OPs mental state is unprovable, but it neither kept the tailgater from passing, created a shoulder, or forced the tailgater to follow closely with brights on. The best you might say is that the OP did the correct thing for the wrong reason, but you need to come up with better reasons than your skepticism some time. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > Don’t be ridiculous. Part of the OP’s objective was to impede the tailgater. Obviously the way to accomplish this is by slowing down, but not so much that the tailgater can pass. \*\* As is mentioned in another post, the way to impede someone is to drive inconsistently. Speeding up and slowing down randomly does indeed make it impossible to pass in this situation. The actions of the OP certainly slowed the tailgater down, but did not impede him from passing. The slowing was a side effect of the OP slowing for safety reasons. The tailgater really slowed himself down by creating an unsafe situation. Your client has been fried, guy. Time to give the case up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mermaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/308 "2003-12-12T22:40:45Z")
At this point in this woefully hijacked thread there are really only three words I’d like to hear from the shyster…I mean prosecuting attorney and they are. The prosecution rests. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/309 "2003-12-13T00:40:12Z")
I dunno if anyone has posted this yet (I can’t stand to read the whole thing - it’s abusurd) but, assuming they havent: **lukwarm** The [Road to the Sun](http://www.myplanet.net/goodmantravels/images/road_to_sun.jpg) highway in Montana fits the criteria of a road that has large stretchs where it would be impossible to pass. I don’t know if you can tell from the photo but on the left is a 1000ft drop and on the right is a 1000 foot rock wall going straight up. What is clear is that there are no shoulders on this particular road. Now, unless you have the mother of all SUV’s, you will **NOT** be able to pull over to let a tailgater pass. FWIW, this particular stretch of road is 54 miles long. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/310 "2003-12-13T04:11:26Z")
**alice** , you may have just came up with something to put this mess to rest (finally). A road, 54 miles long, where it is not safe to cross the double-yellow _and_ not typically feasible to pull over to allow someone to pass safely. Now if only counsel can agree that **Windwalker** may have been on such a road. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/311 "2003-12-13T04:49:01Z")
Indeed. I’ve driven that road - it’s scarey as shit, even in the summer. (Heck, it’s usually only open in the summer.) If someone’s tailgating and shining their brights in your eyes you really have no other choice but to slow down. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/312 "2003-12-13T11:56:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dwalin \* > **lucwarm, why do you think the OP was lying?** A good question. First, re-read the OP. Note that he doesn’t say in his first post whether the tailgater was able to pass. However, it does appear that he got some vindictive pleasure out of the situation. This is more consistent with a situation where the tailgater is unable to pass than a situation where the tailgater is able to pass but has decided to stalk the OP. Note also that in the very first post, the OP does not say “I slowed way down and he STILL didn’t pass me” or words to that effect. If the OP had done that, it would have been odd not to mention it. Thus I inferred from the OP that the tailgater was not given an opportunity to pass. This is also consistent with human nature – when confronted by an obnoxious asshole making demands, it’s human nature to try to deny the person what he or she seeks. Indeed, that’s arguably the premise of the thread. If the OP was trying to give the tailgater the opportunity to pass, he could have slowed down further as has been debated ad nauseum in this thread. From the fact that he didn’t, I gather that he was content to impede the tailgater. This is also consistent with human nature – as mentioned above, when confronted by an obnoxious asshole making demands, it’s human nature to try to deny the person what he or she seeks. Indeed, that’s arguably the premise of the thread. Thus my claim that the OP was trying to punish and retaliate against the tailgater. It’s been said that for everything we do, there is a good reason and the real reason. I think that saying applies to some extent here. In a later post, the OP does indicate that the OP did have an opportunity to pass. However, with this premise, the story makes a lot less sense (IMHO of course). Also, it’s human nature, when confronted with criticism, to spin your conduct to make it appear more reasonable or justified. I think that’s what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/313 "2003-12-13T12:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GSV Consolation of Dreams \* > \*\*Whatever. Allow me to amend my previous statement to: > …In my opinion you are wrong and just too stubborn to admit it. \*\* Again, it seems a little much to claim somebody’s opinion is flat out wrong. I don’t recall having made such a claim about other peoples’ opinions. Anyway, I think it would help if you spelled out specifically what point you believe I’m wrong on. \*\* > [@](#): > > Well, I think there were some people who had issues with the OP at the start of the thread. But I don’t see anyone agreeing with you after the OPer’s clarifying post. \*\* I think I can come up with examples to show that I haven’t faced “unanimous opposition.” as you’ve claimed, even after the OP’s “clarifying post.” ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/314 "2003-12-13T12:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*No, just making a joke. \*\* Ahh, you were JOKING. Whatever. \*\* > [@](#): > > You’ve been bashing people upside the head with your opinion for pretty much the entire thread. \*\* Then it should be very easy for you to come up with examples. Or perhaps this is another joke? ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/315 "2003-12-13T13:11:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SeekingTruth \* > \*\* > Everyone’s an idiot/moron, etc. \*\* Go back and check the thread, idiot. I didn’t call everyone an "idiot. " Mainly you (and a few others) actually. Because you’re an “idiot/moron etc.” \*\* > [@](#): > > Before any more legal challenges, please tell us which law school you are associated with.\*\* Go back and check the thread, idiot. I never volunteered the fact that I’m an attorney. Other people made the claim, and I agreed with it. You think I care if you doubt I’m an attorney? Because I don’t. I couldn’t care less in fact. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/316 "2003-12-13T13:14:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **Again, it seems a little much to claim somebody’s opinion is flat out wrong. I don’t recall having made such a claim about other peoples’ opinions.** And I think it’s a little much to claim the OP is lying based on what’s been presented here. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **Anyway, I think it would help if you spelled out specifically what point you believe I’m wrong on.** Oh no. You are not going to draw me into your ever decreasing circles of argument. Plenty of other people have already demolished your arguments, with cites no less. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*I think I can come up with examples to show that I haven’t faced “unanimous opposition.” as you’ve claimed, even after the OP’s “clarifying post.” \*\* Please do so. Someone specifically agreeing with you, not just calling the OP names for driving slowly. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/317 "2003-12-13T13:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Voyager \* > **Not likely since he mentioned the vindictiveness in his original post. He did give more details later, but that is reasonable, since his fairly long OP couldn’t include everything, and he was not likely to anticipate the full reaction.** Disagree, but it’s a matter of opinion. I did set forth the basis for my belief a few posts back. \*\* > [@](#): > > Well, yes, in most circumstances. Exceptions are if you are doing a stunt, or being an idiot and passing when there is oncoming traffic. It appears that neither is the case here. Given that we know the tailgater could go 50, there is no functional difference in this situation. Please demonstrate otherwise.\*\* Ok . . . first, will you concede that according to your logic, it’s just as easy to pass somebody going 20 as 15? \*\* > [@](#): > > And we have asked for evidence to support your position, and have gotten none. My statement stands.\*\* I’m not sure what you mean by “evidence,” since there is no possibility of bringing in additional witnesses or documents concerning the events described in the OP. I’ve explained why I believe what I believe about what happened. It seems to me that there’s nothing more I can do in the way of presenting evidence. You may disagree with my explanations, but ignoring them won’t make them go away. Perhaps it would help if you explained what you mean by “evidence,” and show me where “we” asked for it? > [@](#): > > Is it really human nature to act like an asshole when you are coming back from Thanksgiving dinner with your mother in the car? Sure. When somebody’s an asshole to you, it’s human nature to retaliate. > [@](#): > > Perhaps I missed them. Perhaps. I laid out an explanation a few posts back, though. You might check it out. (Note that I had given explanations previously too.) \*\* > [@](#): > > Your client has been fried, guy. Time to give the case up. \*\* Disagree. But feel free to pronounce yourself the victor and abandon the thread. In the alternative, I’m happy to consider any new arguments you may care to present. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/318 "2003-12-13T13:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GSV Consolation of Dreams \* > **And I think it’s a little much to claim the OP is lying based on what’s been presented here.** Whatever. I’ve emphasized that it’s my opinion. \*\* > [@](#): > > Oh no. You are not going to draw me into your ever decreasing circles of argument. Plenty of other people have already demolished your arguments, with cites no less.\*\* Suit yourself. But I note that I’ve discussed a lot of different things in this thread. Your general claim that I’m “wrong” is really too vague to allow any kind of meaningful response. So I challenge you: Specify where you think I’m wrong. To borrow a popular phrase: Put up or shut up. \*\* > [@](#): > > Please do so. \*\* Fine, but let’s make sure I understand your position: Your claim is that I’ve faced “unanimous opposition.” So if I find a poster who mentioned my position and didn’t say I was wrong (either expressly or impliedly), then you’re wrong. Agreed? Or are you going to weasel a little? ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/319 "2003-12-13T13:36:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\* > > **lukwarm** The [Road to the Sun](http://www.myplanet.net/goodmantravels/images/road_to_sun.jpg) highway in Montana fits the criteria of a road that has large stretchs where it would be impossible to pass.\*\* I looked at the photo, and it seems to me that if the car in the foreground pulled as far to the right as possible and slowed to a stop or near-stop, the car behind it would be able to pass by crossing the double-yellow. Just MHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697/320 "2003-12-13T17:55:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **Then it should be very easy for you to come up with examples.** Pretty much every single post you have made in this thread, you pedantic jerk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riding-my-tail-with-highbeams-on-is-a-recipe-to-make-me-go-slower-not-faster/215697.md?page=17)