# Riemann's posts in 'The Quarantine Zone' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2021, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965 "2021-05-13T06:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/1 "2021-05-13T06:27:20Z")
> Yes, and as I pointed out, **you reported those statements incorrectly** when you said: That kind of imagination is expected in ‘Great Debates’, but it has no place in ‘The Quarantine Zone’, where people are expected to report facts, not make up facts of their own. I reported an idea, a policy. When challenged, I reported actual words used by a actual people. Riemann claims that reporting actual words used by actual people is ‘reporting things incorrectly’ – except when it applies to Riemann. Riemann takes a free pass to make false claims. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/2 "2021-05-13T06:45:41Z")
You know what would help a lot here? A link to whatever the fuck it is you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/3 "2021-05-13T07:12:33Z")
And once he links to that, a link to where he got his information would be helpful as well. Tracking this shit down for context is a pain in the fucking ass and I wouldn’t bother if I hadn’t already been in the thread in question. Jump to bottom for TLDR version… Here’s what appears to me to be the issue. I numbered the statements for ease of response. Melbourne [stated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1333): > 1. Australia has announced that border controls will not be relaxed, on the basis that vaccination does not seem to prevent transmission. Riemann responded [with](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1346): > 1. Cite? I have seen nothing from the Australian authorities saying that the reason for this move is specifically because they believe vaccines are ineffective at reducing transmission. Back to Melbourne who made a [statement](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1353) about something the Prime Minister said in an unknown context calling it a media bite (never base your argument on a standalone and unlinked “media bite” when it comes to something like vaccination immunity): > 1. Mr Morrison said there was not yet “considerable clinical evidence that tells us transmission is preventable” after the jab. And finally [from Riemann again](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1354): > 1. That’s _we don’t know yet_ . So your post was another instance of the common misrepresentation that I noted in the other thread, in bold below. I am trying to stay out of debates in that thread, other than to simply counter misunderstood claims, and to be fair Riemann also tried to steer this to a different thread. But if I had participated, here’s what my take would have been. 1. That’s a very definitive sounding claim. Had the statement said “We aren’t yet sure that it prevents transmission”, I would have fully supported the claim, with the caveat that it does appear to have a positive effect on transmission to some extent to be determined. We don’t know for sure that it prevents transmission, but we certainly have some mounting evidence that it drastically reduces it. I would have asked for a cite as well, as I’d like to see if the statement was taken in the proper context. 2. This is not a direct counter to the claim, as it is speaking to reduction as opposed to complete prevention, but see no issues with the statement at all. Since we have the claim without context, it seems fair to counter with this. 3. Which is exactly the point that Riemann was trying to make. 4. As noted directly above, this seems spot on. TLDR version: > Vaccination does not seem to prevent transmission and > We do not yet have considerable evidence that tells us transmission is preventable are not equivalent. @Riemann is right. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/4 "2021-05-13T15:16:53Z")
> Australia has announced that border controls will not be relaxed, on the basis that vaccination does not seem to prevent transmission. [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1333?u=tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2021-breaking-news/929428/1333) I think you misspoke in that thread. Maybe you meant: “Australia has announced that border controls will not be relaxed, on the basis that they are not yet sure that vaccination prevents transmission.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/5 "2021-05-13T15:23:35Z")
I, also, think that Reimann was right, although he could have been nicer about correcting Melbourne’s over-simplification of the news. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/6 "2021-05-13T15:30:22Z")
It was not worth reading a Pit thread for this lame argument. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/7 "2021-05-13T16:06:38Z")
@DMC has summed up what I was disputing about what @Melbourne wrote, thanks. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I, also, think that Reimann was right, although he could have been nicer about correcting Melbourne’s over-simplification of the news. Just to note that describing it as an “oversimplification” is not appropriate. It’s a _very_ widespread misconception that vaccines prevent disease but do not prevent transmission. And that’s precisely because of this kind of misreporting. Cautious scientists (or in this case the Autralian PM) may correctly say _we don’t yet know_ how effective vaccination is at reducing transmission. That’s often reported incorrectly or ambiguously that we have affirmative knowledge that they do not reduce transmission, and **many** people have misunderstood this. Here are some examples: > [@These Vaccines Don't Prevent Transmission of the Virus?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/these-vaccines-dont-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus/928074): > > I was pretty bummed out when I read that neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccines necessarily prevented the transmission of SARS CoV 2. I don’t remember where I first heard about this but [here’s](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-questions-social-distance-mask-transmission) one cite: neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine trials tested whether the vaccines prevent people from being infected with the virus. Those trials, instead, focused on whether people were shielded from developing disease symptoms. That means that it’s not clear whether vaccinated people could s… > [@Vaccine: you'll get COVID but no symptoms?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-youll-get-covid-but-no-symptoms/927962): > > From [a piece](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/what-vaccine-means-for-international-travel-scn/index.html) by Australian epidemiologist Adrian Enterman claiming the vaccine won’t mean a safe return to international travel: Let’s take the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine as an example. They have reported the efficacy of their mRNA vaccine to be 95% in preventing symptomatic Covid-19, having tested it on around half of the 43,000 participants in their phase 3 trial (the other half received a placebo). … However, the study hasn’t officially reported the efficacy of the vaccine against becoming i… > [@Continuing to keep masking for your own reasons](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-to-keep-masking-for-your-own-reasons/941850/18): > > I thought your vaccine protects you from catching it, but doesn’t keep you from spreading it if you’ve been unknowingly exposed. You don’t manifest symptoms and you don’t get sick, but, without a mask couldn’t YOU be the spreader regardless? So I thought you’d still want to wear your mask to protect the unvaccinated. Am I wrong? And here’s somebody in another thread misunderstanding what we know about transmission because of the specific post by @Melbourne that’s under discussion here: > [@Continuing to keep masking for your own reasons](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-to-keep-masking-for-your-own-reasons/941850/21): > > Interesting, because I’ve read that Australia has made national policy based on the affirmative idea that vaccines don’t stop transmission. The reason _we don’t know yet_ is because it’s much more difficult to directly study transmission to other people _from_ a vaccinated cohort (to unknown other people) than to study the incidence of disease in the cohort itself. But there is a strong expectation (and a growing body of evidence) that any vaccine that is highly effective against disease will also significantly reduce transmission. And **it would be shocking and terrible news for the world if this were not the case**. So I’m not just nitpicking, and I think it’s important to correct the error when we see it. As for @Melbourne - well, my experience of this poster is a tendency to overreact into apoplexy when challenged on even the most minor of points, rather than concede any error. So I can’t say I’m particularly surprised at them taking the overreaction to another level with this ridiculous Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/8 "2021-05-13T16:15:49Z")
Riemann may or may not be factually correct, but he’s being a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/9 "2021-05-13T16:24:55Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > he’s being a dick An opinion that I’m _sure_ you arrived at through careful and objective consideration of the Quarantine Zone thread, and _not at all_ because I disputed your prescriptivist hogwash in this thread: > [@"waiting for" vs. "waiting on"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-vs-waiting-on/941299): > > This question was inspired by the thread [“in to” vs. “into”](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-to-vs-into/941131) It drives me crazy when I hear something like, “I was waiting on so-and-so to get back to me about my question.” To me, this is a clear example where one should use “waiting for”. The phrase “waiting on” refers specifically to the sort of thing done by waiters and waitresses. It is an act of service, to stand by someone, and wait for their instructions. A lieutenant might wait on a general while the general decides what to do next. B… ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/10 "2021-05-13T18:32:04Z")
I read Melbourne’s original post “vaccination does not seem to prevent transmission” and took it at face value, noting it as yet another disappointment in this whole sad Covid saga. Thank you Riemann for pointing out the error. Melbourne, you were wrong in your original post. You misrepresented what you had heard and it does make a difference. A simple, “yeah, I meant ‘not enough evidence to be sure’” would have avoided the whole kerfuffle. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/11 "2021-05-13T18:34:16Z")
Since this thread is already started, and I don’t want to start another thread in QZ just to ask this, I’ll ask it here. I posted in the long Covid thread: > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/44): > > Study on penile erection dystunction after Covid. First comment in the thread by [ramasamymd](https://old.reddit.com/user/ramasamymd) claims to be a senior author on the study and mentions a couple other resources. > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/44): > > Study on penile erection dystunction after Covid. > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/44): > > COVID19 is NOT sexually transmitted since it is absent in the semen among men who have recovered - our previous study ([https://wjmh.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5534/wjmh.200192](https://wjmh.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5534/wjmh.200192)) @Riemann posts: > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/46): > > That seems like a ridiculous claim to me, unless you’re having sex through a hole in a wall. > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/47): > > ?? > > That looks like a piece of this quote. > > > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/44): > > > > COVID19 is NOT sexually transmitted since it is absent in the semen among men who have recovered - our previous study ([https://wjmh.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5534/wjmh.200192](https://wjmh.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5534/wjmh.200192)) > > That looks like it says that it’s not sexually transmitted from men who have recovered from Covid. Not sure why you truncated that. @LSLGuy tries to explain > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/48): > > I suppose @Riemann is suggesting that two people breathing hard, probably in each other’s faces, might, just might, be at some risk of transmitting COVID between them if either of them had an active infection. @puzzlegal then posts > [@Long Covid - what's the prevalence and prognosis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-covid-whats-the-prevalence-and-prognosis/937157/49): > > Wasn’t there some country that opened the brothels but required the use of glory holes? But the point of the quote that I posted was that the person was recovered. But even if that wasn’t true, people don’t usually say that colds are sexually transmitted since you can get one if you’re having sex with someone who has a cold. I’m not seeing how truncating that quote to take out the recovered part and then talking covid as sexually transmitted is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/12 "2021-05-13T18:43:13Z")
You’re now pitting me for making a joking comment about what I thought was the rather ambiguous way someone (off the board, which I made clear) expressed that aspect of their findings? Since you clarified the context, and @LSLGuy explained where I was coming from, I didn’t think anything more needed to be said. I wasn’t disputing anything _you_ said, or the main substance of your post. I humbly apologize if I gave that impression. Anyone else want to air their grievances? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/13 "2021-05-13T18:46:40Z")
Your father had a distinct odor of elderberries? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/14 "2021-05-13T18:49:42Z")
I will concede that we do not yet have a considerable body of evidence that my father did _not_ smell of elderberries, but nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/15 "2021-05-13T18:55:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You’re now pitting me for making a joking comment I’m not Pitting you. I just added my question here because the thread was already open. You didn’t note that your comment was a joke when I replied to you. Given how seriously you took that comment in this thread, I thought I might have missed something. Considering how you characterized **Melbourne** ’s reaction, your reaction was quite interesting. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/16 "2021-05-13T18:56:16Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You’re now pitting me for making a joking comment about what I thought was the rather ambiguous way someone (off the board, which I made clear) expressed that aspect of their findings? Since you clarified the context, and @LSLGuy explained where I was coming from, I didn’t think anything more needed to be said. I wasn’t disputing anything _you_ said, or the main substance of your post. I humbly apologize if I gave that impression. > > Anyone else want to air their grievances? I was making a joke (although I did read an article about, iirc, the Dutch govt requiring the use of glory holes at brothels) but I did not realize you were. I thought your complaint was a little odd, of course. But it didn’t strike me as “ha ha” odd. Oh well. Tone of voice, text, yada yada. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/17 "2021-05-13T18:57:15Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > You didn’t note that your comment was a joke when I replied to you. I thought at the time that it was obvious that it was just a joke, but on rereading the thread now I realize it’s not so clear. Anyway, please be assured it _was_ intended as a joke, and not to dispute the substance of your post - my error for not making that clearer. I apologize for causing the misunderstanding, without the sarcasm of my prior apology. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/18 "2021-05-13T19:00:12Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Anyone else want to air their grievances? Yeah, you made me read this lame ass pit thread! For shame! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/19 "2021-05-13T19:13:17Z")
This post here makes the whole thread worthwhile. As to the subject of the OP, @Riemann had it right. I find that you tend to be pretty careful in how you word things, to your credit. You do come across a little, uh, terse sometimes, but maybe you just don’t suffer fools gladly. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965/20 "2021-05-13T19:17:31Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I apologize for causing the misunderstanding, without the sarcasm of my prior apology. Cool, thanks! ETA: I was just looking for an explanation, but that was nice. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riemanns-posts-in-the-quarantine-zone/941965.md?page=2)