# riff is to guitar as \_\_\_\_ is to drum **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 19, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786 "2004-04-19T06:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/1 "2004-04-19T06:18:55Z")
Guitars have riffs or licks. Pianos have vamps. I’ve heard the use of the term “horn charts” to describe the analogous term for those instruments. What about drums? You can’t use the word “roll,” because a drum roll is a pretty narrowly defined event. It would be very goofy to speak of “drum licks,” I have to say. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/2 "2004-04-19T06:45:23Z")
Drum solos? (is that ten characters?) ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/3 "2004-04-19T06:50:43Z")
pattern ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/4 "2004-04-19T06:51:07Z")
I don’t know. I’d say, “Nice run, man.” (insert joke about drummers and musicians here) ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/5 "2004-04-19T06:58:50Z")
Riffs and licks are independent of any instrument. To “vamp” is to repeat something as necessary. A “chart” is the sheet music the player reads off of and is not analogous to a riff or lick. As for drums, IANAD, but I don’t see any problem with riff or lick for drums. Your understanding of these quasi-standard musical terms leaves a lot to be desired. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/6 "2004-04-19T09:47:17Z")
I’d say a drum part would be made up from _patterns_ and _fills_. Patterns repeat and fills punctuate. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/7 "2004-04-19T11:35:36Z")
Tattoo? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/8 "2004-04-19T11:58:01Z")
> [@Jpeg Jones](#): > > Riffs and licks are independent of any instrument. To “vamp” is to repeat something as necessary. A “chart” is the sheet music the player reads off of and is not analogous to a riff or lick. > > As for drums, IANAD, but I don’t see any problem with riff or lick for drums. > > Your understanding of these quasi-standard musical terms leaves a lot to be desired. If someone wants to cop an attitude with me BUT PROVIDE GOOD INFORMATION, that’s something I can live with; heck, isn’t that what all of us joined the Straight Dope for, to be humbled in the presence of Cecil Adams? But you’ve managed to be cop an attitude with me while providing information consisting mainly of WAGs and stuff that’s just wrong (yes, a horn chart refers to the sheet music, but it **also** refers, in a metaphorical sense, to the music played from reading that chart – you are being excessively literal-minded). Wow, does that drive me bonkers. YANAD, and YANAH (You are not a help). ---
**Author:** ![mr-monday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@mr-monday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr-monday)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/9 "2004-04-19T12:39:56Z")
I’d say the answer is break, as in break beat. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/10 "2004-04-19T13:11:59Z")
> [@mr-monday](#): > > I’d say the answer is break… I’d say a drum break would be a brief section of a song where the drums are the only instrument playing, but too short to be a solo. As for _chart_ I have heard it used to describe a horn arrangement rather than the sheet music. That is, you can have a “chart” without anything being written down. ---
**Author:** ![ryanbobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ryanbobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryanbobo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/11 "2004-04-19T13:19:06Z")
Looks like I’m the first (former) drummer to chime in here. A drummer would say “lick” or “phrase.” Instead of riff he’d say “beat” or maybe “goove.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/12 "2004-04-19T13:25:54Z")
That song (I think the artist is Todd Rungren) that goes, “I don’t wanna work, I just wanna bang on the drum all day…” y’know that one? He refers to his drum patterns as licks in the song. Course HMNBAD… I can’t resist: In music class if you couldn’t play a wind instrument, they took it away and gave you a pair of sticks. If you still couldn’t make anything good happen, then they took one of the sticks away and made you stand in front of the band! ---
**Author:** ![SilentButDeftly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@SilentButDeftly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SilentButDeftly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/13 "2004-04-19T14:06:08Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Guitars have riffs or licks. Pianos have vamps. I’ve heard the use of the term “horn charts” to describe the analogous term for those instruments. What about drums? You can’t use the word “roll,” because a drum roll is a pretty narrowly defined event. > > It would be very goofy to speak of “drum licks,” I have to say. IANA **P** D ( **Professional** Drummer), but I have played in quite a few bands in my day… I’ve always personally used (or had people refer to what you’re talking about) “drum lick” or simply “drum beat”. ---
**Author:** ![Saranga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Saranga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saranga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/14 "2004-04-19T15:19:01Z")
Drummer here: The answer is “beat”. I’ve also heard older drummers (as well as other musicians) use “lick” quite often, as well as “groove”. “Pattern” works too but is more formal. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/15 "2004-04-19T15:27:09Z")
Yeah, it’s _beat_. My brother is the drummer in the band I play in. I guess you can say he’s professional because we’ve played a lot of paying gigs. As always, during practice I have to yell at him to “ **SHUT UP AND PLAY THE FUCKING _BEAT_!!!** ” I play in a local punk band by the name of $50 Flander, if anyone was interested. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/16 "2004-04-19T15:33:47Z")
To me, a “drum break” implies some degree of improvisation. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/17 "2004-04-19T16:15:42Z")
Re: “Chart” I’ve been a musician since I was just a wee lad, playing in all manner of different combos, playing different styles on different instruments. I have never heard the word “chart” used to describe anything other than the physical piece of paper upon which the music is printed. And I would say that the drummer is typically playing a “pattern” behind the guitarist’s and bassist’s “riffs”. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/18 "2004-04-19T16:26:26Z")
> [@Phase42](#): > > I have never heard the word “chart” used to describe anything other than the physical piece of paper upon which the music is printed… cite: [head chart](http://www.amherst.edu/~jazz/menu.php?band=bigband) dunno if it’s a good example but it’s the first google result I got. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/19 "2004-04-19T17:29:53Z")
I just play the licks on the chart, Man. I might toss in a few fills before the break. Then I’ll ride while the saxes take solos. If all goes well, it should really groove. After the horns scream, we’ll bring it home. The end. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786/20 "2004-04-19T18:17:58Z")
aw you guys beat me to it, but I’ll say it again for emphasis. Beat. Beats and fills. Pattern is more like drum machine terminology. > [@](#): > > You can’t use the word “roll,” because a drum roll is a pretty narrowly defined event. Yeah, but people use it anyway. Groove is appropriate I suppose, but to me it’s more a collective term. A beat contributes to a groove. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riff-is-to-guitar-as-____-is-to-drum/240786.md?page=2)