# Riffraff - Racial Slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488 "2003-11-10T22:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/1 "2003-11-10T22:01:27Z")
This is the [claim](http://www.app.com/app2001/story/0,21133,850508,00.html) by the head of a local branch of the NAACP. Anything in this? (It does not seem to have [originated](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=riffraff) as a racial slur, but you never know if it might have subsequently acquired that connotation). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/2 "2003-11-10T22:04:13Z")
They’re talking bollocks it’s not racist at all. They are probably just claiming it is to get the guy in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/3 "2003-11-10T22:15:45Z")
Not racial, according to a documentary on the history of English I saw on the BBC. It originated in America, meaning people on the river who couldn’t afford to buy tickets on the steam paddle boats. They went to river on rafts, using something called a “riff” to paddle. The term riff-raff originated from riff raft. Incidently, the people on the paddle steamer were called “high felutin’”, which originated from the way the steam flue was high above the ship. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/4 "2003-11-10T22:55:01Z")
It appears to have been used in ways similar to an ethnic slur during an election campaign in Israel. From [here:](http://www.hagalil.com/israel/politik/tv/propaganda.htm) > [@](#): > > JERUSALEM - Entering its home stretch, Israel’s volatile election campaign generated fresh controversy yesterday with the broadcast of remarks that had the ring of an ethnic slur. An actress who supports Ehud Barak, the leader of the Labor Party, called working-class Sephardic Jewish backers of Benjamin Netanyhau, the prime minister, “riffraff,” setting off a storm of protest and damaging Mr. Barak’s efforts to capture Sephardic votes. Also, from this [page](http://learn.jtsa.edu/topics/parashah/5755/behaalotekha.shtml), we find this: > [@](#): > > This remarkable midrashic reading may not recapture the original intent of the text. If we read it in context without any external props, the remark by Miriam and Aaron [“He married a Cushite woman!”] could well be an ethnic slur, prompted by the previous rebellious episode in which the discontent against Moses was fomented by _“the riffraff (Numbers 11:4),” that is the foreigners in Israel’s midst._ Yet Moses himself is married to a non-Israelite! Emphasis mine. I suppose riffraff, when (and if) used in the context of ‘foreigners in our midst’, could be considered an ethnic slur. Just not one against any particular ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/5 "2003-11-10T23:20:08Z")
> [@](#): > > James Waters, president of the Lakewood branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said the problem is real and is exacerbated by people not understanding the Orthodox culture. Perhaps if the Rabbi were less niggardly regarding the Orthodox culture, these misunderstandings could be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/6 "2003-11-10T23:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*Perhaps if the Rabbi were less niggardly regarding the Orthodox culture, these misunderstandings could be avoided. \*\* Thanks. I needed the laugh! ---
**Author:** ![leenmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f1d935/32.png) [@leenmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leenmi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/7 "2003-11-11T00:52:41Z")
Riffraff isn’t racist. I think what the NAACP is trying to claim that when the rabbi used the term riffraff, he was feeling superior toward the audience. And because the audience included a significant portion of African Americans, the rabbi was feeling superior to them. And since racism is the belief that your race is superior to other races, the rabbi was being racist when he referred to a crowd consisting of a significan number of African Americans as “riff raff”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/8 "2003-11-11T02:22:40Z")
I would just remind you that in the old “Underdog” cartoon, Underdog was white, while his arch-nemesis Riff-Raff was black. Coincidence??? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/9 "2003-11-11T02:51:46Z")
yeeeeesh! Riffraff comes from an old French phrase, _rif et raf_, meaning “completely.” (_Rif_ meant to take away or to plunder or to scratch; _raffe_ was a verb indicating the motion of sweeping something up.) It wandered away from its original meaning to indicate the sort of chaff and detritus that would _need_ to be swept up, then was applied, by analogy, to lower class people, particularly in the sense of “rabble.” It had entered English from French prior to the initial English settlements in North America. With the rigid class society that developed in the South, it maintained its currency in that region, although it was applied to white rabble at least as often as (perhaps more often than) it was applied to blacks. On reading the article, I would guess that the objection to riffraff was to a perception that a majority of people being so described were perceived to be black (and, possibly, poor?). That is a point that those community leaders should work out, together. If NAACP leader Waters actually believes that “riffraff” is intrinsically racist, he is simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/10 "2003-11-11T03:34:01Z")
Have we just entered a time warp where every single word is a racial slur? What a disappointment. I’d rather see a candyman. One would think that some people want you to live like you’re under sedation. Perhaps I’ll just slink off to become a creature of the night. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/11 "2003-11-11T03:39:31Z")
“Riffraff” isn’t racist - it’s classist. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/12 "2003-11-11T03:52:49Z")
“Ahm Riff-Raff Sam, the raffiest Riff to ever riff a Raff!” ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/13 "2003-11-12T14:00:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leenmi \* > Riffraff isn’t racist. I think what the NAACP is trying to claim that when the rabbi used the term riffraff, he was feeling superior toward the audience. And because the audience included a significant portion of African Americans, the rabbi was feeling superior to them. And since racism is the belief that your race is superior to other races, the rabbi was being racist when he referred to a crowd consisting of a significan number of African Americans as “riff raff”. To clarify: it wasn’t the rabbi who used the term riff-raff - it was a member of the school board. I don’t think it is racist to denigrate any group of people who happen to be of a different color or ethnic origin. It’s only if you denigrate them _on the basis_ of their being a different color or ethnic origin. Anyway, that’s not how I interpreted the guy’s remarks. See also: [Tempers rise over racial insensitivity](http://tritown.gmnews.com/news/2003/1106/Front_Page/006.html) > [@](#): > > "[Grunhut] said, ‘I’m happy to see parents and more people coming out to school board meetings, but I’m tired of a lot of riff-raff coming out to the meetings and making negative comments,’ " said Waters. “You have to think before you say something [like that]. People got up and commented on the use of the term, which is minimally insulting.” > > Waters said during the meeting that the term riff-raff has historically been used to refer to African-Americans, and was therefore considered to be a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/14 "2003-11-12T14:14:28Z")
I looked it up in the Hebrew dictionary, but the three closest words I found were: _rifref_ — ‘to blink; to move, flutter’ _rifruf_ — ‘fluttering, hovering’ _rafrefet_ — ‘mud, dirt, mire’ Make of those what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/15 "2003-11-12T14:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Have we just entered a time warp I remember doing the Time Warp! Well, _somebody_ had to make the Rocky Horror joke, it might as well have been me! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/16 "2003-11-12T16:23:55Z")
Er, yeah, **Otto** , and that somebody was **Dogface**. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/17 "2003-11-12T17:00:42Z")
I always understood riff-raff to mean people of low demenor and questionable morals. Criminals, con-artists, pan-handlers and the like. No underlying race subtext. A close synonym would be “shady characters”. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/18 "2003-11-12T17:21:42Z")
[This web site](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-rif1.htm) has a fairly comprehensive history of the word. Race, be it black, white, African or even Southern USA doesn’t even get a mention. It backs up my initial reaction that the complaint is BS and is just the sort of clap-trap that sullies real complaints of actual racism. Whether use of the word here was insulting, however, is entirely another matter. Maybe it was, or maybe it wasn’t. Maybe it was justified and they _were_ riff-raff. But it has nothing to do with anyone’s race. ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/19 "2003-11-12T18:00:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Herge \* > \*\*Not racial, according to a documentary on the history of English I saw on the BBC. It originated in America, meaning people on the river who couldn’t afford to buy tickets on the steam paddle boats. They went to river on rafts, using something called a “riff” to paddle. The term riff-raff originated from riff raft. Incidently, the people on the paddle steamer were called “high felutin’”, which originated from the way the steam flue was high above the ship. \*\* Very creative, whether you invented this etymology yourself or it came from the BBC. Just the same, I’ll stick with Webster’s definition, from the French _rif et raf_, explained accurately above by tomndebb. NAACP = Nat’l Ass’n for the Advancement of **Colored People**. Yet, if anyone ELSE refers to “colored people”, even Americans of African heritage, that is considered ignorant at best, virulently racist at medium and a call to combat at worst. It could be argued that the NAACP is itself racist. After all, they are only interested in the advancement of one specific “race” of people, giving the distinct impression that they apparently therefore hold that race as superior to the others. Sorry, it had to be said–especially in this context of trying to change the language to the point where they alone get to determine what words are racist slurs, regardless of whether they actually are slurs or not. The ultimate irony for me is that even thought you may not say **“colored people”** , you get to refer to **“people of color”** all day long, even on TV!! Huh?? \ And while we’re making sense, it bears noting that EVERYONE is a person of color. Some color. I’ve never seen a transparent person (althought I suppose that could be because I looked right through them). ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488/20 "2003-11-12T18:07:44Z")
Based on the context of the situation, I would wager the people who were being unruly, and therefore called “riff-raff”, were black people. Does anyone know? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riffraff-racial-slur/212488.md?page=2)