# Rigamarole, You Are Either A Liar Or A Sociopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343 "2007-01-01T20:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/181 "2007-01-02T20:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] Okay, I realize I’m coming late to the party here, but didn’t we have a thread _exactly like this_ last year? [/QUOTE] Link please? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/182 "2007-01-02T20:38:00Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] My thoughts exactly. [/QUOTE] You know, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I’m misunderstanding you here **featherlou** , because I know that you’re a kind person and that you try to help people that you don’t know. I have imperical evidence to that fact. However, as you know, we live in the same urban centre. 2 weeks before X-mas I was at Market Mall where a man who WAS drunk (as opposed to having had a stroke or whatever) had fallen and hit his head. I called 911, put my scarf under his head (and promtly threw it out after as it was covered in blood) and waited until the ambulance arrived and EMT took over. I did this because I’m not an asshole. Jesus Christ on a Cracker - it’s pathetic and sad that anyone would justify ignoring another person in distress on the basis that they live in a big city. sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/183 "2007-01-02T20:50:00Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Link please? [/QUOTE] It was not a rhetorical question. I’m not sure, but I definitely think we had a thread like this a little while ago: “I think the guy lying outside my door might be dead, what should I do?” So much so that, when reading **Rigamarole** ’s thread, I kept checking the dates on the posts because I couldn’t believe it wasn’t a revived zombie. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/184 "2007-01-02T21:03:56Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] It was not a rhetorical question. I’m not sure, but I definitely think we had a thread like this a little while ago: “I think the guy lying outside my door might be dead, what should I do?” So much so that, when reading **Rigamarole** ’s thread, I kept checking the dates on the posts because I couldn’t believe it wasn’t a revived zombie. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I did think you were speaking rhetorically and that you might be able to find the link. I missed that thread. I was just curious. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/185 "2007-01-02T21:28:07Z")
Another in the “Call the cops” corner. We were having a party at my place years ago, a very drunk guy that nobody knew showed up at the door. We figured he had came from the neighborhood bar, but he was toasted and we told him to leave. He made it to the corner and passed out under a streetlight. It had been a while and somebody showed up and said there was somebody passed out at the corner. I called the cops. More because I didn’t want a guy passed out on the neighbor’s lawn than worried about his well being. I told the cops who I was and where I lived, and where the guy was. They showed up and hauled the guy off in an ambulance. Then they came and hauled me off for assault and battery! Come to find out the guy was nearly dead, nobody at my place had assaulted him, but the cops were convinced he had been beaten. They were able to locate a few of the people who had been at the party (who weren’t interested in sticking around after I got hauled in) and they confirmed that nobody beat the guy. So I wasn’t too happy about being hauled to jail, but an ER nurse/friend of the family said that he would have likely died if they hadn’t got to him. It was worth it for me. Now if the guy would have died and I got filed on for murder I might be singing a different tune, but all that really came of it was a damn good party got broken up. Call the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/186 "2007-01-02T21:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Why should anyone bother to help you if circumstances caused you to be passed out on the sidewalk? [/QUOTE] Exactly my point. Has man evolved to the top of the food chain because of brain or herd instinct? Plenty of animals herd, and then there are those that feed off the herds. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/187 "2007-01-02T21:36:46Z")
First off, call 911. Second, since we’re sharing anecdotes now, here’s mine. This is from the Denver area. We got sent on a “man down” call during the summer. It was at night, but it was still pretty warm out, at least in the 60s. We found this guy who had OD’s and was passed out under the sprinklers in an apartment complex. Long story short, he ended up getting intubated and spent at least 1 week in the ICU. His core temp on arrival at the hospital was 86?F! St. Urho Paramedic ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/188 "2007-01-02T21:41:18Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Exactly my point. Has man evolved to the top of the food chain because of brain or herd instinct? Plenty of animals herd, and then there are those that feed off the herds. [/QUOTE] Is it hotter down south, or in the summer? So you see this non-helping of a person in distress as evolutionary pressure? Have you thought this through at all? Do you do much thinking? It kinda hurts at first but then it feels a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/189 "2007-01-02T21:42:07Z")
I meant for that ? to be a degree symbol. That’s how it showed up on my computer. His temp was definitely 86 F. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/190 "2007-01-02T21:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Exactly my point. Has man evolved to the top of the food chain because of brain or herd instinct? Plenty of animals herd, and then there are those that feed off the herds. [/QUOTE] A very early entrant into the “best non-sequitor of 2007” contest. Or are you suggesting that **Rigmarole** should have eaten the passed out man. **Twickster** , aren’t _you_ married? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/191 "2007-01-02T21:58:42Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Exactly my point. Has man evolved to the top of the food chain because of brain or herd instinct? Plenty of animals herd, and then there are those that feed off the herds. [/QUOTE] What the fuck? Human beings are social animals–or do you think that any roads, gun, nation, plow, or factory has ever, in human history, been the work of a single individual? We evolved to “the top of the food chain” (not really–ebola has us beat) by being social critters, looking out for one another and using our amazing intelligence to help one another out. You’ll note that it’s us, not tigers, that rule the earth. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/192 "2007-01-02T22:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] 36 years, and still going strong. Sorry. [Here’s](http://www.flickr.com/photos/32485167@N00/342767429/) a pic, in case you were curious. [/QUOTE] Gosh, I woulda said, [Robert de Niro](http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/5270/Events/5270/RobertDeNi_Grani_11042743_400.jpg.html?hint=nm0000134). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/193 "2007-01-02T22:22:29Z")
[QUOTE=alice\_in\_wonderland] You know, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I’m misunderstanding you here **featherlou** , because I know that you’re a kind person and that you try to help people that you don’t know. I have imperical evidence to that fact.\Jesus Christ on a Cracker - it’s pathetic and sad that anyone would justify ignoring another person in distress on the basis that they live in a big city. sheesh. [/QUOTE] Okay, I’ll clarify my position a little; my original post was a response to the overall attitude I was getting from this thread, that everyone who lives in Doperland never sees a passed-out person who isn’t someone’s hard-working, deeply loved dad who just had a heart attack and would die without a good samaritan giving him CPR and calling 911 (\<– exaggeration for effect). That’s bullshit, and we all know it. Most people passed out in public are homeless, and probably drunk, stoned and/or crazy. Does that make them less than human? No. Does it make every passed out person my problem? No. Is there any easy answer to homelessness? Of course not. If we’re comparing stories now, I donate to the local homeless shelter each year, as well as the local food bank, and volunteer every Tuesday with a self-help group to help people not become homeless. That’s how I’m helping to deal with the homeless problem in my city. As for the exact circumstances in the original thread linked, yeah, a guy lying in a sprinkler is an unusual condition, and I would probably call the police to have a look at him. If I were like the OP, however, and so used to seeing passed out people lying around (and I suspect he’s fairly young, too), I might not think much of it, either. I see a lot of people here willing to condemn another human being for not acting the way they think he should have acted; where’s your milk of human kindness for **Rigamarole** , people? Is a Doper who appears to be callous and unfeeling in your eyes less than a homeless person passed out in the street? For a bunch of people who are talking a lot about how kind and helpful they are, you sure aren’t showing it to one of our own. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/194 "2007-01-02T22:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Themenin] So, what am I trying to say here ? There were a bunch of nice regular people driving those cars over that guy in the street, and a bunch of nice regular people (including me) ignoring the guys under the cardboard boxes. When I see how nice regular people behave in real life, I’m a little suspicious that everybody’s so righteous in SDMBland. Kudos to those who take real life action to help. That looks like the minimum courtesy to me too. [/QUOTE] Dude, I don’t think so. People who run over another person, alive or dead, are not _nice, regular people_. A “nice regular person” might have served and avoided the body or person with their car and assumed somebody else has contacted the authorities, or done something else in their heads to convince themselves they don’t need to do anything, but _run over somebody’s arm_? I’m pretty sure that’s one definition of not being a nice, regular person. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/195 "2007-01-02T22:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Sorry, I did think you were speaking rhetorically and that you might be able to find the link. I missed that thread. I was just curious. Jim [/QUOTE] It was by \*\*Cluricaun \*\* or \*\*Claricuan \*\* or, some similar name. Someone with a faster connection than me can search for it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/196 "2007-01-02T22:31:42Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] As for the exact circumstances in the original thread linked, yeah, a guy lying in a sprinkler is an unusual condition, and I would probably call the police to have a look at him. If I were like the OP, however, and so used to seeing passed out people lying around (and I suspect he’s fairly young, too), I might not think much of it, either. [/QUOTE] Except he thought enough about it to post it on a message board. And he thought enough about it to describe the man as “potentially dead,” not “passed out drunk.” And he thought enough about it to describe another human being’s distress as just another joyful experience in the city. But he apparently did not think enough about it to realize that one call to emergency services was absolutley NO SKIN off his ass and had the possibility of saving a human life. > [@](#): > > I see a lot of people here willing to condemn another human being for not acting the way they think he should have acted; where’s your milk of human kindness for **Rigamarole** , people? Is a Doper who appears to be callous and unfeeling in your eyes less than a homeless person passed out in the street? For a bunch of people who are talking a lot about how kind and helpful they are, you sure aren’t showing it to one of our own. This is just stupid. Is he in distress? Is his life threatened? Is he unconscious and unresponsive? Who the hell is talking about how kind and nhelpful they are? We are talking about someone who _literally would not lift a finger_ to rescue another human being from potential danger. What does he want, a fucking cookie? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/197 "2007-01-02T23:04:13Z")
Has nobody else so far thought that this might be a giant WHOOSH!? (That \*is \* what it’s called isn’t it? I think I’m having another senior moment.) :eek: Maybe I should have kept the geezer moniker after all. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/198 "2007-01-02T23:27:59Z")
[QUOTE=Largo62] Has nobody else so far thought that this might be a giant WHOOSH!? (That \*is \* what it’s called isn’t it? I think I’m having another senior moment.) :eek: Maybe I should have kept the geezer moniker after all. [/QUOTE] Well, subtly, I thought that was what I was going for in [post # 105](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8109578&postcount=105). However, maybe I should ramp up my subtle-meter a bit. Either that or no one remembers the reference because it’s so weak. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/199 "2007-01-02T23:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Omega Glory] It was by \*\*Cluricaun \*\* or \*\*Claricuan \*\* or, some similar name. Someone with a faster connection than me can search for it. [/QUOTE] \*\*Cluricaun \*\* posted this thread in June. in fact by odd coincidense on 6-6-6. [Good morning passed out person!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=374572) Is that the one **Absolute**? It does not sound as bad as this one and the thread was short. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/200 "2007-01-02T23:56:20Z")
Okay, anecdotes. Many years ago, in Pittsburgh, I was walking home after a night of barhopping. Passed a parked car, from within which I heard a woman call “Help…” and a man snarl “SHUT UP!” :eek: 😕 :dubious: :eek: I was truly torn. Help? Sure, I wanted to help. But how? I was a woman myself, a small woman, and at that time, not in great physical shape. Um…Hit him with my pepper spray? But that would get her too, and anyway, then what? Okay, uh…Stand here, at a discreet distance from the car, squinting at the license number and praying that I don’t hear the door slam and get a hand around my throat or a gun in my face. Where’s the nearest pay phone? Okay…Uh…But I really should have done something. Where’s my spirit of sisterhood? Years later, I came to terms with the knowledge that I **had** “done something.” I’d done the only thing I **could** do. I was not Starbuck, and even now I’m still not. I knew even then that any one-on-one confrontation, I would lose, _and the guy would have gone on to do whatever he’d been planning to do anyway._ The dispatcher did seem to take me seriously, unlike the time I called in a guy who staggered out of a bar and drove away, so I’d helped in some way. Like someone said upthread, there’s no shame in choosing not to intervene physically if you might be putting yourself in danger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343.md?page=11)