# Rigamarole, You Are Either A Liar Or A Sociopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343 "2007-01-01T20:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/201 "2007-01-02T23:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Self-righteous non-urbanites are annoying. [QUOTE=featherlou] My thoughts exactly. [/QUOTE] Actually, I’m a self-righteous _urbanite_ living right smack in the center of a major city with a population of almost 5 million. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/202 "2007-01-03T00:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] … die without a good samaritan giving him CPR and calling 911 (\<– exaggeration for effect). That’s bullshit, and we all know it. Most people passed out in public are homeless, and probably drunk, stoned and/or crazy. [/quote] True enough. My running partner lives in a neighbourhood with lot of homeless people and sees them snoozing in the park all the time. It’s when you see something about that situation that makes you pause and say “that ain’t right” that you should do something. In the case described in the OP, someone who is not responding to the cold water from a sprinkler suggests a bit of help is required. In the case of my running partner, the old man she found was sprawled across the sidewalk and not snoozing under a tree the way most of the Listerine-drinking homeless guys do when they nap. A homeless guy sleeping in the shade of a tree in summer, or a warm subway grate in cool weather is “ordinary” in some places. A homeless guy who doesn’t notice a sprinkler raining on him is “unusual.” Besides, drunk/stoned and passed out to the point of being unresponsive is a medical emergency, whether you’re a frat boy coming form a New Year’s party, or a homeless crackhead who drank a bottle of Scope. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/203 "2007-01-03T00:19:45Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] A homeless guy sleeping in the shade of a tree in summer, or a warm subway grate in cool weather is “ordinary” in some places. A homeless guy who doesn’t notice a sprinkler raining on him is “unusual.” Besides, drunk/stoned and passed out to the point of being unresponsive is a medical emergency, whether you’re a frat boy coming form a New Year’s party, or a homeless crackhead who drank a bottle of Scope. [/QUOTE] And just to repeat a point that has been made before, we have no way of knowing if the person in question was a “bum” or a homeless guy. Despit several direct questions, \*\*Rigamarole \*\*declined to offer any justification for calling him that. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/204 "2007-01-03T02:41:10Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] I see a lot of people here willing to condemn another human being for not acting the way they think he should have acted; where’s your milk of human kindness for **Rigamarole** , people? Is a Doper who appears to be callous and unfeeling in your eyes less than a homeless person passed out in the street? For a bunch of people who are talking a lot about how kind and helpful they are, you sure aren’t showing it to one of our own. [/QUOTE] Here’s your answer for why the community is spanking **Rigamarole** : [QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] What the fuck? **Human beings are social animals** –or do you think that any roads, gun, nation, plow, or factory has ever, in human history, been the work of a single individual? **We evolved to “the top of the food chain”** (not really–ebola has us beat) **by being social critters, looking out for one another and using our amazing intelligence to help one another out. You’ll note that it’s us, not tigers, that rule the earth.** Daniel [/QUOTE] We are taking a rogue member of society to task, because they are going against the grain, and we realize that such an attitude is a danger to society as a whole. That person might not have been a bum, and even if they were homeless, there but for the grace of Og go one of us, or one of our loved ones. That is why there is such outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/205 "2007-01-03T02:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] That person might not have been a bum, and even if they were homeless, there but for the grace of Og go one of us, or one of our loved ones. That is why there is such outrage. [/QUOTE] I respectfully disagree. To me it is not there but for the grace of Og go I, or one of us. That person **IS** one of us. We are **ALL** one of us. Does that mean I am ignorant of the concept of social strata and class systems? No. I’m not a dolt. But at the most basic level, that person in dire distress is **Us**. And in a moment of need, the OP’er didn’t see that. He saw something less than a human in need. It is the unspoken horrific “them” attitude of the OP’er that is nauseating and is causing, at least in my mind, the need to reply with vitriol. Which I did back there somewhere. And will do again. Fuck that elitist better-than-Them attitude. Pal, one day **you** will be them, and in dire need and frightened that the same cold callous souls as yourself are happily passing you by. Is that not sad? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/206 "2007-01-03T03:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] I respectfully disagree. To me it is not there but for the grace of Og go I, or one of us. That person **IS** one of us. We are **ALL** one of us. Does that mean I am ignorant of the concept of social strata and class systems? No. I’m not a dolt. But at the most basic level, that person in dire distress is **Us**. And in a moment of need, the OP’er didn’t see that. He saw something less than a human in need. [/QUOTE] I fully agree with your sentiment, however there are those of us who sit comfortably in thier homes and think it won’t happen to them, that they won’t end up in such dire straits. Yes, they are “us”, and yes it is my business if someone is lying in the sprinklers and not waking up because not only are they a person, but they could be me (and certainly they are worth just as much as I am anyway) one day. I was pointing out the other side of the coin, as to why they should “bother” helping is all. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/207 "2007-01-03T06:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] \*\*Cluricaun \*\* posted this thread in June. in fact by odd coincidense on 6-6-6. [Good morning passed out person!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=374572) Is that the one **Absolute**? It does not sound as bad as this one and the thread was short. Jim [/QUOTE] You got it, that was it. You’re right, not quite the same situation as here. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/208 "2007-01-03T06:47:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mindfield] This is why I fucking hate society sometimes. Bums, hobos, dregs of society, whatever label you want to plaster them with, are _human fucking beings_. They’re not even _criminals_ in any significant way yet so many people treat them with utter contempt. Why? Why is their very existence found so offensive? What is it that they did besides fall upon ultimate hard times? [/QUOTE] I’m just wondering why you’re distinguishing between criminals and bums/hobos/dregs of society. Are you saying that all bums are just victims of circumstance and all criminals have made intentional free choices about their actions? If you saw a criminal (not sure how you would know, but just for argument’s sake) lying on the lawn, would your reaction be different? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/209 "2007-01-03T11:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] I’m just wondering why you’re distinguishing between criminals and bums/hobos/dregs of society. Are you saying that all bums are just victims of circumstance and all criminals have made intentional free choices about their actions? If you saw a criminal (not sure how you would know, but just for argument’s sake) lying on the lawn, would your reaction be different? If so, why? [/QUOTE] Do the people whom our society charges with emergency response (ER docs and nurses, EMTs, firefighers, etc.) make such a distinction? ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/210 "2007-01-03T12:11:32Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] I’m just wondering why you’re distinguishing between criminals and bums/hobos/dregs of society. Are you saying that all bums are just victims of circumstance and all criminals have made intentional free choices about their actions? If you saw a criminal (not sure how you would know, but just for argument’s sake) lying on the lawn, would your reaction be different? If so, why? [/QUOTE] I was making the distinction to illustrate how some people seem to hold more contempt for homeless people than they do for criminals. I didn’t say that one was more or less worthy of saving than the other. I also pointed out that some homeless are indeed homeless by choice, which may fuel some people’s apathy, but that neither does it make them any less worthy of helping. Moreover, all of it is moot anyway because the OP made no attempt to find out any of this. Not that it is his place to nor was he under any obligation to, but neither does this mean that he shouldn’t still have been a little more proactive in his decision to do something. It wouldn’t matter who I saw were in my lawn – I wouldn’t even think to find out because it is immaterial to his seeming need for help. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/211 "2007-01-03T13:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Twickster** , aren’t _you_ married? 😉 [/QUOTE] Nope. **le sigh** ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/212 "2007-01-03T17:05:26Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] Nope. **le sigh** [/QUOTE] Huh. I could have sworn I saw you refer to your husband in some other thread, but I must have you confused with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/213 "2007-01-03T17:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Do the people whom our society charges with emergency response (ER docs and nurses, EMTs, firefighers, etc.) make such a distinction? [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, sometimes [they are that callous too.](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/10/11/kasstan-lawsuit.html) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/214 "2007-01-03T17:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] Unfortunately, sometimes [they are that callous too.](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/10/11/kasstan-lawsuit.html) [/QUOTE] Well, I purposely did not in include police in my question, as I did not want to invite tales of police brutality. Your link is to a charge of callousness, not a finding of callousness. I suupose I could amend my question to "As a rule … " ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/215 "2007-01-03T18:09:10Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Well, I purposely did not in include police in my question, as I did not want to invite tales of police brutality. Your link is to a charge of callousness, not a finding of callousness. [/QUOTE] True, I should also say that as a rule emergency service workers do carry out their duties regardless of the social status of the victim. The case I linked to was an aberration and despite the internal investigation that “cleared the officers of wrong doing” the report noted that the victim did have a pulse and was breathing at the time the officers called and reported a “dead homeless guy” on the bench in front of their headquarters (which is two blocks from the hospital). They did not attempt to check his vitals or perform CPR which could have saved his life. That is why there was a call for a coroner’s inquest (rather than the internal investigation) and the civil action against the police. The ambulance staff however, execute their jobs to the letter: got there within 5 minutes and tried to save the guy’s life. Very sad. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/216 "2007-01-04T00:21:14Z")
[QUOTE=faithfool] Well, subtly, I thought that was what I was going for in [post # 105](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8109578&postcount=105). However, maybe I should ramp up my subtle-meter a bit. Either that or no one remembers the reference because it’s so weak. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Sorry about that, **faithfool** , I went back to the post and I _still_ don’t get it. Maybe I really am on the path to the long good-bye. Or maybe I just lost my “cool” too many years ago. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/217 "2007-01-04T00:43:02Z")
No worries **Largo**. I usually am a tad transparent 'round these here parts. 😉 I wasn’t actually around then, as it was before my time, but apparently somebody (named piebold or something like it, I think) led everyone on a merry chase over a girl he supposedly met that wore pajama pants at the time. Sounds like a tale I’d probably have been sucked into also, but it turned out he was having a bit of the old ‘leg pull.’ Needless to say, the Doper community was non-plussed (as well within their rights) and said situation has (I thought) kind of become part of SDMB lore. Nope, the fellow was **Skewbald** and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111990) is the original, erm, entertaining thread. Then [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=116085&highlight=pajama) was the pit thread it spawned. Fun reading indeed. :o ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/218 "2007-01-04T01:17:39Z")
Seems to me no one ever proved he was lying. The story was improbable, maybe, but improbable things happen all the time. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/219 "2007-01-04T01:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] Seems to me no one ever proved he was lying. The story was improbable, maybe, but improbable things happen all the time. [/QUOTE] True, and I hope I didn’t come across as definitive in some sort of implication, because that certainly wasn’t my intention. Sorry if I came off that way. I’d only hoped to show a parallel between that and this, which we as a group would never be able to verify successfully either. And to me, it just hasn’t had to quite-right ring of “you just had to be there!” to understand content. But hey, perhaps that’s only me and **Largo**. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343.md?page=10)