# Rigamarole, You Are Either A Liar Or A Sociopath **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343 "2007-01-01T20:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/101 "2007-01-01T23:33:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Yup. They rank right up there with dead guys on the lawn. Life \*can \*be a bitch sometimes, can’t it? Thank God there are urbanites around to remind us what is \*really \*important. Wouldn’t want to lose perspective. [/QUOTE] And of course, none of us who have questioned **Rigamarole** ’s conduct: 1. live in cities; 2. have seen, interacted or otherwise dealt with homeless or formerly homeless people; 3. have ever encountered anything resembling this situation before. We’re all talking completely out our asses. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/102 "2007-01-01T23:35:07Z")
When you are uncertain if a person might be in trouble and you have to make a quick decision, err on the side of caution. If you are wrong, then calling the police might indeed disturb his sleep and cause him a hassle for a while. It could ruin a couple of days for him. If you are right, it could save the life of a human being. If you don’t call and you are right in not calling, you protected his guy from a couple of days of trouble. If you don’t call and you were wrong, you allowed a fellow man to die when you could have saved his life. He may be someone’s father or husband or brother. He is someone’s child. Do what you would want someone to do for your own flesh and blood. Yes, we are all responsible for ourselves – to a point. That doesn’t include being mugged, having a stroke or other illness, being hit by a car, falling from a car. All of these things have happened to me or to people I love. Someone was there to do the decent thing. And it wasn’t to keep walking… We are responsible for ourselves in this way: We must never allow our hearts to become so jaded and hardened that we hesitate to call 911 when we think that a person _might_ be dying and we can do something to save them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/103 "2007-01-01T23:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=Rigamarole] I don’t know what I’m looking for exactly, but I have a past history of people who think they’re helping me only causing me more problems, and that has surely colored my attitude toward a situation like this. I truly don’t believe that man wanted anyone’s “help” at the time (especially the police’s), and I already feel validated by the fact that he has now left and was not, in fact, dead. I was obviously being more concerned than I needed to be. We take care of ourselves. I always have, and when I really need help I seek it out myself. There’s no reason I would expect anyone to act differently. [/QUOTE] There’s a word for the above reasoning: it’s called rationalizing, or making excuses. You have some serious issues if you honestly THINK that is in anyway an appropriate response. “Value independence” my ass. You sicken me, and worse, you frighten me. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/104 "2007-01-01T23:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=gaucho] Self-righteous non-urbanites are annoying. [/QUOTE] Yup. So are self-centered downtown cock-of-the-walk leeches. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/105 "2007-01-02T00:41:02Z")
**Rigamarole** , you don’t happen to have a pajama pants wearing girlfriend, do you? ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/106 "2007-01-02T00:53:19Z")
[QUOTE=gaucho] Self-righteous non-urbanites are annoying. [/QUOTE] I know. Let me know if you see any. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/107 "2007-01-02T01:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=Rigamarole] I don’t know what I’m looking for exactly, but I have a past history of people who think they’re helping me only causing me more problems, and that has surely colored my attitude toward a situation like this. I truly don’t believe that man wanted anyone’s “help” at the time (especially the police’s), and I already feel validated by the fact that he has now left and was not, in fact, dead. I was obviously being more concerned than I needed to be. We take care of ourselves. I always have, and when I really need help I seek it out myself. There’s no reason I would expect anyone to act differently. [/QUOTE] What you don’t comprehend **Rigamarole** , is there but for the grace of Og, go _you_. This is another part of the outrage you are seeing, because many of us realize that could easily be one of us. Lots of people live from paycheck to paycheck, we have no choice but to do so. All it would take would be a housefire and/or a car wreck to bring us to financial disaster and put us out on the streets. That is a sobering thought, that through no fault of our own we wind up homeless, and another person won’t even lift a finger to summon medical help when needed. That “bum” might be diabetic, epileptic, or might have had a heart attack or stroke. They might have wandered off, and succumbed to the elements because you didn’t call 911 to go check on them and see to it they got warmed up and any medical care they needed. You are despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/108 "2007-01-02T01:13:08Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Well in TV & Movies, I have usually seen talking, shaking a little or a cold compress and maybe smelling salts if they are on hand. Jim [/QUOTE] Well, sure, I didn’t say it was the ONLY method ever employed…but if I was with someone who passed out, and I sprinkled them with cold water and they didn’t wake up, I would be seriously concerned. I think just the fact that this guy was being soaked with the sprinkler and didn’t wake up would lead me to think that I didn’t need to make any further efforts to rouse him before I assumed that something was wrong. Oh, and **gaucho** , you have no idea what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/109 "2007-01-02T01:24:46Z")
Ah, I love the Christmas season. So much compassion displayed. And, of course, prejudice against bums and cops. Wouldn’t be complete without that, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/110 "2007-01-02T01:27:43Z")
Dude, you are a fucking dick. You are a heartless soulless sociopathological smidgen of warm meat with a pulse, not much of a brain and zero heart. How does your blood move around your body ? You come to a MESSAGE BOARD and talk about this instead of immediately **doing something** to save a life? You suck, pal. I used to be an E.M.T. and we’d always go, no matter what the call was. No matter who was in need. It never occurred to me that I might be racing to help a soulless husk of a man, an indifferent cucksucker of a sub-human who felt mighty fine about sharing information regarding the suffering of another with the Internet, but couldn’t be bothered to take proper steps to do the right thing. I still would have gone of course. Why? Because I have a soul and a mind and a heart. Almost all human beings do. You are in rare company. Few have the balls to brag about such a completely disgusting moral choice. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/111 "2007-01-02T01:28:26Z")
gaucho, you’re a selfish idiot. I saw a man fall over once for no apparent reason. I checked him and he looked in a bad way (clammy skin, no response), so I called an ambulance. He turned out to be a diabetic who had gone into coma, and would have died if left alone. rigaramole, you need to learn a lesson in humanity. From your posts, it sounds as if you could equally have decided the bloke was cold, poured petrol over him and set him on fire. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/112 "2007-01-02T01:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=Mama Tiger] Wow. Just…wow. There’s been a big stink on the DC local media this past year over a guy who was found stumbling on the street; the cops assumed he was drunk, called an ambulance, which didn’t bother to show up for nearly an hour, and the guy died. Turned out he was a reporter for the New York Times who had been mugged not far from his own home. Hewas not a bum. He was not drunk. He did not receive the treatment that a reasonable person should receive – just like you, Rigamarole, you shithead. What happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt that maybe he’s not just a bum or a junkie, and that maybe he needs help, and that a 30-second call to 911 to report him would be so hideous an act? Who are you to play God and decide that he’s not worth being even checked out to see whether he actually needs help? You are truly…I just have no words. [/QUOTE] When I lived in the city, the same thing happened to a cook who was setting up in the morning before anyone got there. He stepped outside for a smoke and got mugged. We heard later that he went up to people and no one helped. He ended up in a coma because no one stopped or even called the police. A simple phone phone call isn’t painful. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/113 "2007-01-02T01:44:02Z")
This is sad. Really fucking sad. I can’t imagine NOT trying to find out what state the individual was in. I can’t imagine NOT immediately going to the man’s assistance. I can’t imagine NOT calling 911. Leaving a human being in that condition, under those circumstances, and then _sitting down at a computer for some soul-searching_ is pretty God damned despicable. * * * Dear Anyone, If you ever see me laying under a sprinkler, not moving, even if I’m wearing a heavy coat, please come and help me. Yell at me. Jostle me. Check my breathing. Check my pulse. If I’m not breathing and you can’t detect a pulse (and you know CPR), start CPR. Call 911, or have somebody else do it. Scream and yell if necessary. Attract attention. _Help me!_ Thanks in advance, Rysdad ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/114 "2007-01-02T01:56:41Z")
I’ve been thinking a little longer about this situation, and Rigamarole’s reaction to it. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, thinking that perhaps he came on to the 'Dope looking for for help. Like calling up your mom, your friends, saying “Holy fuck, I think there is a dead guy on my lawn, what should I do?!” Even though he _knows_ what he should do, (Please, please, please, I hope so,) he is overwhelmed by the situation, panics, and wants reinforcement, or a push in the right direction. Post #40 “I’ve never claimed that I didn’t have time or couldn’t be bothered to call 911, but I genuinely wasn’t sure it was the right thing to do. This may seem completely obvious and apparent to the rest of you, but you weren’t there either.” Post #30 “I wanted to share because I don’t have anyone to share this sort of thing with. For what it’s worth, after seeing the initial responses I did go out to check on him, which is when I came back with the report of him having changed positions. I don’t think I would have done that otherwise.” Post #16 “I posted here because I did have some concern of there being a dead body by my apartment and was basically ready to act anyway (yes I was being facetious about waiting until tomorrow), but now that I am relatively sure that it’s not the case I just don’t see the point in getting involved.” Or he’s a douchebag. I’ve got quotes for that side of the argument, too. Sorry about the quotes, I don’t know how to code it the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/115 "2007-01-02T02:03:31Z")
Ok, I’m not going to defend the _morality_ of **Rigamarole** ’s actions, but I am surprised that people are so shocked by them. I think for the majority of people, the mind-your-own-business don’t-make-any-waves fear overrides the concern factor. Imagining myself in a similar situation, I’m having trouble picturing myself doing something unless the guy seemed obviously dead, though I’d like to be able to say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/116 "2007-01-02T02:06:52Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] Imagining myself in a similar situation, I’m having trouble picturing myself doing something unless the guy seemed obviously dead, though I’d like to be able to say otherwise. [/QUOTE] So, if he was just in deep distress, but not yet dead, you would not do anything? Not even a phone call? It’s only when he is dead that you would intervene? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/117 "2007-01-02T02:07:29Z")
Two here from Keith Olbermann’s _Worst Person in the World_ book, from his show _Countdown_ on December 6th, 2005: > [@Keith Olbermann](#): > > Runner-up: Motorists, maybe police, anybody with a car who spent a weekend driving past the lump at the side of the road near Franklin, Pennsylvania. Sure it was tan and slightly covered with snow, but it wasn’t a deer carcass. It was a pedestrian who had been run over by a car. And left to lie there for three days. > > _But the winner…_ > > An unidentified Washington, D.C., police officer. Charles Atherton, the urban designer, former secretary of the U.S. Commission on Fine Arts, was hit by a car in the capital over the weekend. As he lay there, unresponsive, badly injured, witnesses saw the cop come over and give him a ticket for jaywalking. Mr. Atherton died shortly thereafter. > For not thinking the old man lying in the street might’ve needed something more than a $5 jaywalking citation… > > _ **A Washington, D.C., police officer** , today’s Worst Person in the World!_ Somehow, I wonder what would happen if I were to forward this thread to _Countdown_’s staff. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/118 "2007-01-02T02:09:03Z")
Anyone else here old enough to remember the [Kitty Genovese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese) incident? Looks like we haven’t made much progress. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/119 "2007-01-02T02:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Two here from Keith Olbermann’s _Worst Person in the World_ book, from his show _Countdown_ on December 6th, 2005: Somehow, I wonder what would happen if I were to forward this thread to _Countdown_’s staff. [/QUOTE] Hey look. If he wanted help he should have asked for it. People are responsible for their own actions, right? Maybe he’ll think twice before he jaywalks again. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343/120 "2007-01-02T02:14:01Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] So, if he was just in deep distress, but not yet dead, you would not do anything? Not even a phone call? It’s only when he is dead that you would intervene? [/QUOTE] And only after he had to mow around him a couple of times… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rigamarole-you-are-either-a-liar-or-a-sociopath/386343.md?page=7)