# Right Wing Christian Dickheads; Abstinence Classes Don’t Work; Duh **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824 "2005-02-01T18:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/21 "2005-02-01T20:23:19Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Does anyone have a cite for a study on the effectiveness of conventional sex-ed classes? Given the amount of teenage pregnance around, it can’t be all THAT much better than abstinence-only classes… > > (I’m not advocating for abstinence-only, I really am curious about the comparison…) Teen pregnancy is lower than it has been since this data was tracked. ([cite](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0193727.html)) On preview, I see that **cher3** has additional information related to that. Anyways, I’m not expecting to see abstinence only proponents doing a 180 now that there’s some evidence suggesting that they’re wrong. I’m well aware that in modern politics, no one ever admits that they were wrong. However, I’m sure that those who believe in abstinence only sex-ed will still support their plan. I’m curious what they will base this support on now. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/22 "2005-02-01T20:38:46Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Does anyone have a cite for a study on the effectiveness of conventional sex-ed classes? Given the amount of teenage pregnance around, it can’t be all THAT much better than abstinence-only classes… Define “conventional”, first off; what’s conventional depends a lot on region. What I experienced was a semi-opt-in (parental permission required) couple of days about puberty, with essentially no discussion of sex or contraception at all. I don’t recall hearing the word “condom” in that class, and we certainly didn’t put one on a banana. All my “sex ed” in that sense came from a couple of books my parents gave me. Let’s see. [Adolescent Pregnancy and Childbearing](http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fsprechd.htm) covers the decline in teen pregnancies in the 90s while noting that the US’s pregnancy rate is much higher than that of other industrialised nations. (European nations tend to have fairly comprehensive sex-education programs, and in fact [the Netherlands has a negligible teen pregnancy rate](http://std.shs.ilstu.edu/News/news.htm) with a program that includes no abstinence promotion at all.) [Teaching about contraception increases the odds that it will be used.](http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2801996.html) I can’t find the article titled “Do Abstinence Lessons Lessen Sex?” with google; the author is Lantier (in case someone’s more ept than I). [A trend study](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5138a2.htm). [Virginity pledges](http://www.hivdent.org/pediatrics/pedvpbtcbhe012001.htm) are effective, but only as long as they’re popular (and I’ve seen somewhere a study that suggests that kids who fall off this wagon are less likely to use contraception). (Cites pulled by googling the footnotes in Judith Levine’s _Harmful to Minors_, for those folks who want slant information.) ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/23 "2005-02-01T21:01:14Z")
> [@Phatlewt](#): > > I’m curious what they will base this support on now. Money. Effective or not, they’re still getting almost $200 million for 2005, which will bring the total for the five years to around $900 million. Hey, at least it’s not a billion, right? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/24 "2005-02-01T22:09:39Z")
The funny thing is, what that $900 million will get is a few more candidates for the job of posing on the covers of porno videos with genitals coming out of the orifices and a “Hi, Mom!” look on their faces when they find out how thoroughly they’ve been hosed about sex. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/25 "2005-02-01T23:46:46Z")
what does an abstinence class consist of? I’ve got a nasty image of some guy with a slide show going “don’t do that… don’t do that… don’t even think of doing that, not even when you’re married…” ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/26 "2005-02-02T00:26:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I’ll bet they throw more money at it. > > Fucking Democrats. That’s their solution to everything. > > -Joe You did notice that the story originated in Texas, didn’t you? You do know what political party controls Texas politics, don’t you? You do know who promotes this kind of insanity, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/27 "2005-02-02T00:41:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What I have never understood about the opposition to birth control info in school sex ed classes is: how can you ignore the importance of teaching knowledge so crucial for students’ **futures**? > > We accept the responsibility to teach them Business Math before they have their own budgets, checkbooks or credit cards. We accept the responsibility to teach them Driver’s Ed before they’re allowed to drive. We accept the responsibility to teach them Home Economics (including such [topics](http://www.tea.state.tx.us/teks/122toc.htm) as “Family and Career Management” and “Preparation for Parenting”) before they have their own homes, families or careers. > > We teach these things because we know that teenagers will need this knowledge **someday** soon, even if they’re not in a position to use it right now. So even if you’re violently opposed to high-schoolers being sexually active, how can you argue with teaching them things they’ll need to know when they **do** become sexually active **as adults**? Since when is school supposed to be only about learning stuff that you’re going to use right away? > > Sex is a fundamental human activity that the vast majority of people are going to participate in at some time or other, and it can have more profound and life-changing consequences than anything else in the world. How on earth can anyone defend the notion that vital information about it should be ignored in schools and left for students to pick up on their own, if and however they can? Madness, sheer madness. Yeah, it’s a goddamn shame that parents aren’t allowed to give their kids this valuable information on their own. what? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/28 "2005-02-02T01:01:11Z")
::sigh:: Jeezus, don’t go and _tell_ them how stupid it is or they’re going to breed even more! Fuck, dude, let 'em keep trying, fercryinoutloud! They might succeed! Hell, Paul said it was best to stay celibate in all circumstances, so maybe they could be worked up to that through early indoctrination into cold showers and dates with Rosy Palms and her Five Sisters. Give it a chance! Think, man, _think_! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/29 "2005-02-02T01:18:41Z")
**elfkin:** _Yeah, it’s a goddamn shame that parents aren’t allowed to give their kids this valuable information on their own._ So what? Parents can teach their kids to drive too, and can give them information about Home Economics and Business Math, for that matter. Nonetheless, schools undertake to teach those subjects because they’re important parts of a general curriculum to help students prepare for adult life. The fact that their parents could provide the information on their own doesn’t keep the schools from teaching it. Given that sex is, by any reasonable standard, a far **more** crucial, universal, and influential component of adult life, it’s ridiculous to argue that schools shouldn’t give students accurate and comprehensive information about it. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/30 "2005-02-02T02:24:54Z")
Yes this is a stupid program. It’s every bit as stupid as the program that was being dished out in the late 60’s when I was in school. It’s equally as stupid as the war on drugs-another misbegotten “just say no” venture. Politicos on boths sides of thie aisle have thrown their names behind this ill-fated endeavor for several decades. In other news, tomorrow morning the sun is expected to rise in the east… ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/31 "2005-02-02T02:43:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > We accept the responsibility to teach them Business Math before they have their own budgets, checkbooks or credit cards. On what planet? I had Business Math in high school. Nary a word was breathed about those three subjects. All we learned was decimals and percentages. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/32 "2005-02-02T03:16:06Z")
An interesting corrollary to the abstinence only sex-ed programs was brought up in a Larry Niven book whose title I’ve conveniently forgotten. The point was made about the Zero Population Growth movement, but I think it applies here as well. The problem with _asking_ people not to have sex / breed, is that only those who are respectful of authority will comply with it. Fast forward several generations and you will find that the majority of the population is descended from people who _didn’t_ comply with the suggested course of (in)action. I find it highly amusing that the government is funding a program which will ultimately result in a population that will be more difficult to govern. A perfect example of being hoist by one’s own petard, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/33 "2005-02-02T03:19:31Z")
I took something called Recordkeeping in High School, and we had to keep a record of our hypothetical business’ debits and credits and act like a real business. it was invaluable. As for abstinance, it hardly seems like a class, it only says don’t have sex efore marriage; that hardly takes 45 minutes of a class time. Birth control is vital to teach-because something is taught, doesn’t mean everyone is going to go out and do it! ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/34 "2005-02-02T03:28:01Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > did "of abstinence only sex-ed " line up perfectly on other people’s browsers like it did on mine? > (no? ok, don’t mind me. carry on) Yes, but only after I read your post and decided to resize my browser. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/35 "2005-02-02T04:23:56Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > what does an abstinence class consist of? I’ve got a nasty image of some guy with a slide show going > > “don’t do that… don’t do that… don’t even think of doing that, not even when you’re married…” May I use this as my sig? Please? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/36 "2005-02-02T05:12:11Z")
Yeah. Let’s make abortion illegal AND not teach kids anything about birth control. The Republican party platform is so damned dumb when it comes to sex. Because that’s just what the world needs – more teenaged parents. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/37 "2005-02-02T05:21:15Z")
All I can hear in my head is the South Park teacher. “Don’t do sex, sex is bad. M’kay?” ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/38 "2005-02-02T13:46:00Z")
I saw a documentary about abstinent teens in Texas. One scene amused me; the boys were painstakingly rationalizing how it was true that they weren’t getting any sex, but that at least they were getting a lot of oral sex. If the Jesus sauce only creates little Bill Clintons within their midst, I say, keep pushing it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/39 "2005-02-02T13:47:43Z")
Hmm. What do you get when you mix the Jesus Sauce with the Baby Batter? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824/40 "2005-02-02T15:03:09Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > You did notice that the story originated in Texas, didn’t you? You do know what political party controls Texas politics, don’t you? You do know who promotes this kind of insanity, don’t you? Sorry, thought my bias was clear. Sarcasm. Hypocrisy. You know how Texas Conservatives always bitch about how Them God Damed Libruls are always trying to solve problems by raising taxes and throwing more money at problems? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-christian-dickheads-abstinence-classes-don-t-work-duh/287824.md?page=3)