# Right wing push for criminal justice system reform: WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231 "2018-12-16T17:37:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/21 "2018-12-17T07:42:01Z")
And there is absolutely no sign of minorities going towards Republicans, because Republicans actively fight to keep their party the white people party. They count heavily on the identity politics of the white working class. The fact that there are more conservative minorities is not new: they just refuse to vote Republican. And Trump’s prominence and the introduction of the alt-right aren’t remotely going to make them feel more comfortable. The only way Republicans pull in minorities is to start caring about minority issues, and disavowing the alt right, who are the only reason they are in power right now. It’s possible, of course. They could finally see the light and change. But nothing suggests that this is what is going on. It’s still all about how not being racist is “PC run amok.” It’s about how brown immigrants are harming our society. It’s about how white people are a persecuted class. It’s about defending racists by appealing to freedom of speech. There is no sign that the Republican Party is moving leftward on this or most other issues. The only ones I can think of are with certain “entitlements” like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. In other respects, all signs show Republicans becoming more conservative. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/22 "2018-12-17T15:26:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Law and order is a big catchphrase to the conservative crowd. However, they tend to mostly be happy with the current system. So I think this is largely an attempt at distraction from the illegal stuff Trump and co are up to. 1968, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/23 "2018-12-17T16:01:14Z")
I never heard a peep from republicans about this until after the Kochs voiced support for prison reform. I think the answer is as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/24 "2018-12-17T16:16:40Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I never heard a peep from republicans about this until after the Kochs voiced support for prison reform. I think the answer is as simple as that. Also, Kushner’s daddy got sent to prison by big meanie Chris Christie and there were no tennis courts available in the afternoons! And no Chilean sea bass on the menu! As soon as any bill threatens to reduce the inmate population, the for-profit prison industry will let loose the purse strings and republican lawmakers will fall in line. This thread is full of delusional thinking. Somehow, the party that is openly embracing white nationalism is soon to become the big tent? If you believe that, I got a story about a ‘self-made’ billionaire who became a ‘populist’ president that will knock your socks off. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/25 "2018-12-17T17:12:11Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > For the record, I agree with you, **Mr. Nylock,** that we are going to see minorities turn to the GOP in greater numbers than before. I base this on two things. One, the prevailing wisdom among the Democrats seems to be that the Republican Party basically equals white America trying to cling to old parochial values in the face of the “impending doom” of demographics turning against them…and the prevailing wisdom always winds up being wrong. Whatever most people think is going to happen, the opposite is what’s actually going to happen. So you guys think minorities are going to join the GOP. And your basis for that belief is that things always happen the opposite way from what people think. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/26 "2018-12-17T18:39:58Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I never heard a peep from republicans about this until after the Kochs voiced support for prison reform. I think the answer is as simple as that. It’s been an issue that Senator Lee has worked on for quite some time. ETA: I’m not familiar with when “the Kochs voiced support for prison reform”, so I suppose it’s possible that his long-term support for the issue came after that, but the gist I get from this comment was that the Kochs statement was fairly recently. Does anyone know the date? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/27 "2018-12-17T19:52:42Z")
There is a relatively easy explanation for this, IMO. In the 80s and 90s, the folks that were generally ‘seen’ as getting locked up for drugs were black drug dealers who were selling crack. Now however, we have quite a bit attention and focus on drug abuse being rural white folks abusing opioids. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/28 "2018-12-17T20:25:13Z")
It’s a push from Evangelicals. They have been heavily involved in prison ministries for years and have long felt the system is broken. Theologically, they’re all about forgiveness and becoming a new person. The prison pipeline does not advance either their ideology or their interests. They’re holding the Donald’s feet to the fire on this one and since they’re his biggest bloc, he’s caving. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/29 "2018-12-17T20:31:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you guys think minorities are going to join the GOP. And your basis for that belief is that things always happen the opposite way from what people think. The fact Clinton got less votes from Hispanic voters than Obama even against Trump shows that some segments aren’t exactly unified against the GOP as many think. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/30 "2018-12-17T23:03:44Z")
I see that this is federal prison system bill. Does it have any effect on ordinary people convicted of ordinary crimes? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/31 "2018-12-18T00:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I see that this is federal prison system bill. > > Does it have any effect on ordinary people convicted of ordinary crimes? The short answer to your question is no, and the long answer is not a great deal. Most ordinary crimes like assault or DUI are handled in state courts. Federal law does cover some drug offenses, so some people caught up in the various wars on drugs could be helped by these changes. In fact, President Trump pardoned (or commuted the sentence) a woman convicted of trafficking who had become something of a cause celebre, but whose name I have forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/32 "2018-12-18T02:25:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you guys think minorities are going to join the GOP. And your basis for that belief is that things always happen the opposite way from what people think. You can just read what I wrote yesterday to see what I think. I think the same thing today that I thought yesterday. The nonsense I quoted above is some sort of wildly obtuse inaccurate paraphrasing of my thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/33 "2018-12-18T03:49:20Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > The short answer to your question is no, and the long answer is not a great deal. > > Most ordinary crimes like assault or DUI are handled in state courts. > > Federal law does cover some drug offenses, so some people caught up in the various wars on drugs could be helped by these changes. Right, the overwhelming majority of common criminals are in the \*state \*CJ systems, not the federal. And I suppose the studies on recidivism-control methods would be available to state penal systems to evaluate if they wish to consider policy changes at the state level. Perhaps also in an indirect fashion, if Federal policy changes then the grant programs offered to states may undergo changes in their equirements and goals to match the policy, causing states to adopt similar policies to meet funding terms. But it is indeed several steps removed from what this bill would directly do. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/34 "2018-12-19T01:56:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s been an issue that Senator Lee has worked on for quite some time. > > ETA: I’m not familiar with when “the Kochs voiced support for prison reform”, so I suppose it’s possible that his long-term support for the issue came after that, but the gist I get from this comment was that the Kochs statement was fairly recently. Does anyone know the date? This article is from early 2015. [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/overcriminalization-of-america-113991](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/overcriminalization-of-america-113991) I don’t really care if or when Senator Lee worked on this. It wasn’t a part of the general republican agenda until after the Kochs declared they wanted to spend money to try to get it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/35 "2018-12-19T04:51:53Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > You can just read what I wrote yesterday to see what I think. I think the same thing today that I thought yesterday. The nonsense I quoted above is some sort of wildly obtuse inaccurate paraphrasing of my thoughts. In a thread about prison reform, you brought up the subject of how the Republican Party is reaching out to black voters. That may be indicative of what you think about black people. But you’re going to win over a lot of black voters as long as you equate them with prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/36 "2018-12-19T04:58:17Z")
I’m guessing Rump will want to put all those prisoners to work. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/37 "2018-12-19T06:43:54Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > The fact Clinton got less votes from Hispanic voters than Obama even against Trump shows that some segments aren’t exactly unified against the GOP as many think. The Hispanic vote largely consists of three distinct blocks: Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and Mexicans. Puerto Ricans mostly vote Democratic, Cubans skew heavily Republican, and Mexicans used to split evenly until the last 10 years when they’ve trended Democratic. I suspect the reason Trump received more Hispanic support in 2016 had to do with more Cuban-Americans angrily voting Republican in response to Obama’s thawing of relations with Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/38 "2018-12-19T06:44:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In a thread about prison reform, you brought up the subject of how the Republican Party is reaching out to black voters. That may be indicative of what you think about black people. But you’re going to win over a lot of black voters as long as you equate them with prisoners. I don’t equate black people with prisoners. As far as I know, the majority of black people are middle class individuals who have never been arrested. Prison reform, however, is an issue on the minds of many black people; do you doubt that criminal justice reform is a major issue that black voters have an interest in? Part of the reason it is a black issue are things such as sentencing disparity between a white person and a black person for the same crime. Furthermore it is also a commonly held belief that some black people end up in the criminal justice system due to things such as police profiling as well as long term structural disadvantages due in part to present outcomes of past racist policies. Are you telling me you don’t believe any of these things exist and that the only reason someone would acknowledge the benefit of prison reform for black communities is because black people are somehow genetically inferior and inherently prone to criminal behavior? To be clear about what I’m saying is I think prison reform is an important issue for black voters because the past and present effects of racism and poor policies have lead to a disproportionate percentage of black people with criminal records. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/39 "2018-12-19T18:32:54Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I think the Republican party is changing rapidly - so fast it’ll make your head spin. The Democratic Party is also changing; but I’m still not particularly in love with either party at the moment. The big political shift that’s going on is that Republicans are squaring their sites on working class voters. This means addressing all the problems that effects all races of lower middle and middle middle class voters. The Democrats are going to focus more on aspirational and intellectual voters. > > I’ve said it many times, the Democrats will start losing a significant portion of black voters. I will point to this thread when it happens in the next 4 - 6 years. In some state races the gop has won 30% of the black vote. But how do you feel the gop will win a bigger percentage of the black vote on the national level? The democrats may ignore their base (blacks and liberals) quite a lot which means the democratic base isn’t motivated, but do you feel the party of Trump with his hatred of NFL protests will win black voters? Also the gop is still the party of southern whites, and I’m sure blacks know this. Anyway, can you elaborate on this prediction? I guess I could see the gop efforts to suppress immigration and renegotiate trade deals could appeal to working class people of all races. But the business wing of the gop loved illegal immigration and free trade. So it’ll be tough to change them. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231/40 "2018-12-19T19:08:35Z")
Clearly intended to siphon away the black vote. If the make even mild inroads there Democrats are in big trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wing-push-for-criminal-justice-system-reform-wtf/826231.md?page=3)