# Right-wingers want gay kids beaten up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712 "2001-06-05T18:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/41 "2001-06-06T22:28:30Z")
[Brandon](http://www.gender.org/remember/people/brandon.html) [Teena](http://www.suicidelolita.net/brandon) Not really a case of homophobia, the case isin’t even a hate crime. Not under the current definition of hate crime at least. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/42 "2001-06-07T00:00:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Pathros\_1983 \* > > \*\*In my opinion, I believe that the right wing is so harsh towards homosexuality is because it is called in the bible (and I think that this is the only sin, if not one of only a few) an abomination. Im not condoning violence of any sort, but that would seem a reasonable explanation for the violence. \*\* > > Thank you Mr. Phelps, may I have another? \*\* It seems that you equate _reasonable explanation_ with _justification_. Pathros was trying to express his understanding of why they react the way they do, not justifying their reactions. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/43 "2001-06-07T02:41:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*[Brandon](http://www.gender.org/remember/people/brandon.html) [Teena](http://www.suicidelolita.net/brandon) Not really a case of homophobia, the case isin’t even a hate crime. Not under the current definition of hate crime at least. \*\* Not true. It was a case of homophobia, as well as a hate crime against a transgendered person. It almost fits the definition of gay panic that some of the bashers of Shepherd and Gaither tried to claim. Except in this case, the assailants raped Teena the first time, and then killed her when she didn’t remain silent about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/44 "2001-06-07T07:22:50Z")
Theres no such thing as a hate crime against a transgendered person. It almost fits the gay panic, except for the fact that they raped Brandon “to prove that he wasn’t a man”. Which turns it from a hate crime into just murder. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/45 "2001-06-07T07:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*Theres no such thing as a hate crime against a transgendered person. It almost fits the gay panic, except for the fact that they raped Brandon “to prove that he wasn’t a man”. Which turns it from a hate crime into just murder. \*\* Yes, there is such a thing as a hate crime against a transgendered person. It is in the FBI Hate Crime Statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/46 "2001-06-07T08:26:26Z")
No, no hate crime against transgendered in the FBI statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/47 "2001-06-07T08:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*No, no hate crime against transgendered in the FBI statistics. \*\* They are grouped in with the sexual orientation category. And the transgendered are covered in many states with hate crime legislation, such as California. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/48 "2001-06-07T09:03:58Z")
From the FBI website at [http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm](http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm) > [@](#): > > the FBI does not have any federal jurisdiction to investigate hate crimes motivated by a sexual orientation bias. These crimes are not always reported as hate crimes, and thus the statistics on them are lower than the actual frequency. What happened to Brandon Teena was a hate crime. What they did to her was because they considered her a freak. They committed their crime because they wanted to “teach her a lesson.” That is a hate crime. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/49 "2001-06-07T09:10:41Z")
Hate crime or not (and it sounds like one to me) it was a horrible, horrible thing. Whatever you call it. It was a rape and murder. Oh my gosh. \*_RAPE AND MURDER._ How can you get more hateful than that? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/50 "2001-06-07T11:13:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*From the FBI website at [http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm](http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm) > > > [@](#): > > > > the FBI does not have any federal jurisdiction to investigate hate crimes motivated by a sexual orientation bias. > > These crimes are not always reported as hate crimes, and thus the statistics on them are lower than the actual frequency. > > What happened to Brandon Teena was a hate crime. What they did to her was because they considered her a freak. They committed their crime because they wanted to “teach her a lesson.” That is a hate crime. \*\* It might have had something to do with her taking advantage of some of the women she dated. It might also have had something to do with her pretending to be a male all that time. But then so far as I know a hate crime is any crime where X is even part of the motivation. And before someone jumps down my throat, NO! I do not think there was any justification for what was done to Brandon Teena nor do I think there was any excuse. Furthermore I was very angry when I heard the Sheriff dismiss her charges of rape on that tape. I’m not convinced that they would have raped her had she just been some random person they found out was transgendered. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/51 "2001-06-07T16:15:49Z")
I wasn’t aware that a hate crime could only happen randomly. A hate crime is defined as someone being harassed, hurt or killed because of their actual or perceived religious beliefs, sex, or sexual orientation. (Are there more classifications?) They found out he was actually physically a woman, and that gave them their excuse to attack him. Their knowing him as a friend is irrelevant. Tell me, do you think they would have attacked him otherwise? This is what makes it a hate crime. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/52 "2001-06-07T17:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dogsbody \*] **The Ryan** , I’m sure this researcher would disagree with you: > > > [@](#): > > > > Discusses shunning as a form of psychological violence similar to teasing or excluding. Shunning is the relational process whereby an individual aggressively ignores or avoids another in retaliation for a real or fantasized injury. This is a form of disguised violence that denies both those on whom it is inflicted and those who inflict it. I really don’t see what you think this proves. That some people think that shunning is a form of violence? I will certainly stipulate that. But just because some people have chosen to abuse language, that doesn’t justify the further corruption of the language. And BTW, “aggressively ignores” is an oxymoron. > [@](#): > > Now, as far as **betenoir** ’s OP, your thoughts? _Is_ the rejection of the law there justified as a “gay rights” measure? Well, this certainly would give homosexuals rights, so the characterization of it as “gay rights” is justified, although misleading (since it implies that the bill gives rights only to homosexuals). I don’t see how gay rights are a bad thing, but if one believes that they are, then one would have a reason to vote against this bill. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712/53 "2001-06-07T21:28:29Z")
MGibson, what is > [@](#): > > It might have had something to do with her taking advantage of some of the women she dated. It might also have had something to do with her pretending to be a male all that time. other than being transgendered? Simply by existing Brandon decieved apparently. I don’t see how you can seperate “a random transgendered person” and that. What I was trying to point out about the hate crime thing is that orientation does not cover being transgendered. Which is why gender is probably going to be added to the list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingers-want-gay-kids-beaten-up/67712.md?page=2)