# Right wingnuts scare me... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498 "2005-12-01T02:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/1 "2005-12-01T02:34:35Z")
You know the people I’m talking about. Not just your average, well-spoken conservative (of which we have many on these boards that I’m quite thankful for), but the people who say things that just make your jaw drop. This Pitting comes from statements made on another forum I frequent that tends towards political debate. We were discussing the whole topic of Bush mentioning wanting to bomb Al-Jazeera. Over there, we had come to the conclusion that this was probably a joke from Bush, that was put into an official, secret transcript, that got leaked. Because really, I may not like Bush and the Republicans, but the man just cannot be that dumb. But then…we start seeing statements like this pop up from one of the participants: Names changed to protect the innocent. > [@Crazy Neo Con poster from other board](#): > > LibPosterA, propaganda doesn’t have to be false in order to be propaganda. If it’s determined that the broadcasts are harmful to our soldiers or the effort, they become a legal target whether they are reporting factual information or not. > > I agree with NeoConPosterA. I’m surprised the Coalition didn’t put them out of commission early in the war. If they don’t want to be considered a target, they should adjust their coverage so that they aren’t a propaganda organ of the enemy or move to a location where we can’t reach them - like China or Antartica. > > I’d be more dissappointed if it came out that there was no discussion of bombing Al Jazeera. Mind you, this quote comes from an American, who considers himself a “strict constructionist”, but apparently thinks that the Constitution doesn’t matter when it comes to freedom of information or media. Frankly, I’m just sickened that there are people out there that would actually support the bombing of a media outlet simply because they bring to daylight mistakes made. Shooting the messenger is never a good idea. Anyhow, I apologize for ranting here…but I had to rant somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/2 "2005-12-01T02:39:29Z")
To be non-partisan about this, I should point out that Clinton’s people actually DID go ahead and bomb/kill journalists in Kosovo in a manner that was really questionable. While some of these people certainly were part of the state media, and the state media did run information for the dictator, they were still by and large journalists who hadn’t hurt anyone. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/3 "2005-12-01T03:10:53Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > To be non-partisan about this, I should point out that Clinton’s people actually DID go ahead and bomb/kill journalists in Kosovo in a manner that was really questionable. While some of these people certainly were part of the state media, and the state media did run information for the dictator, they were still by and large journalists who hadn’t hurt anyone. Of course you have a legit cite for this. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/4 "2005-12-01T03:16:55Z")
He _said_ Clinton did it. Jeez, **lonesome loser** , I can’t begin to imagine how much more legit you can get than that. Everyone _knows_ that Clinton did way worse things than Bush II ever thought of. And he did 'em _first!_ ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/5 "2005-12-01T03:22:37Z")
Well, since most of this was before lots of internet reporting, it’s not easy, but here are some: Definately a wacko group’s perspective on things, but they are talking about real events. [http://www.progress.org/archive/yugo07.htm](http://www.progress.org/archive/yugo07.htm) > [@](#): > > In an April 8th news briefing NATO Air Commodore David Wilby explained: “Serb radio is an instrument of propaganda and repression. It has filled the airwaves with hate and with lies over the years, and especially now. It is therefore a legitimate target in this campaign. If President Milosevic would provide equal time for Western news broadcasts in his programs without censorship…then his TV would become an acceptable instrument of public information.” In fact, now that I read back through the history again, the decision seems even more questionable: the justification for lack of balance was… that the Serb media was broadcasting pictures of dead civilians who had been killed in an accidental bombings that the US had indeed conducted. Some of this is discussed here: [http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=3228](http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=3228) There is no question that the Serb media outlets had indeed been pulling water for the Serbian government. But we did kill them and blow up their buildings, and at the time there was a lot of debate over whether targeting journlists, even state-controlled ones, was really a legitimate target of war. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/6 "2005-12-01T03:33:16Z")
Okay, I am genuinely confused. From your cite: > [@](#): > > NATO spokespersons have justified the bombing of Serbian TV and radio on the grounds that these broadcasters are an “instrument of state propaganda,” tell lies, spew forth hatred, provide no “balance” in their offerings, and thus help prolong the war. So, did Clinton order the NATO attack? It doesn’t say in either of those articles. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/7 "2005-12-01T03:37:06Z")
And rightfully so! It is so easy to not take into consideration the natural turning direction of a rotating machine part when one is selecting a fastener to hold things together. Reach in the box and slap on a right wing nut on the end of a component that normally rotates counter clockwise and your machine may come apart at a critical moment causing disaster. Just like pedals on one side of a bike have left handed threads, you need to find a supplier for left-handed wing nuts for these situations. I have never purchased any, though I am sure they are out there. One of the machinists I used to work with had such a complete toolbox that he had a full _left-handed_ tap and die set. Pretty cool stuff. He could have made a left handed wingnut if he needed to. What? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/8 "2005-12-01T03:38:03Z")
NATO, and, primarily Clinton’s general, Wesley Clark, chose to do so. I’m not genuinely arguing that Clinton is exactly on par with Bush. But this was a Democratic administration fighting a war that bombed foriegn media outlets because they said they were propagandists (and to be fair, to some extent, they were). Don’t get me wrong: I’m a Democrat who voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry and, god willing will vote for Mark Warner in 08. But I’m just saying that the larger issue here is a little less partisan than we might like. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/9 "2005-12-01T03:42:32Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Well, since most of this was before lots of internet reporting, it’s not easy, but here are some: > > Definately a wacko group’s perspective on things, but they are talking about real events. > [http://www.progress.org/archive/yugo07.htm](http://www.progress.org/archive/yugo07.htm) > > In fact, now that I read back through the history again, the decision seems even more questionable: the justification for lack of balance was… that the Serb media was broadcasting pictures of dead civilians who had been killed in an accidental bombings that the US had indeed conducted. > > Some of this is discussed here: > [http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=3228](http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=3228) > > There is no question that the Serb media outlets had indeed been pulling water for the Serbian government. But we did kill them and blow up their buildings, and at the time there was a lot of debate over whether targeting journlists, even state-controlled ones, was really a legitimate target of war. If Clinton had decided to bomb an independent Germany-based media outlet because they were broadcasting footage of Serbian civilian casualties, then I think you might have an apt comparison. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/10 "2005-12-01T03:45:44Z")
Thanks for the link. The difference I can see is that **NATO** did target journalists that were fomenting hate and rebellion in Kosovo. Were as in the war totally controled by Bush and his allies target journalists in general. Regardless of what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/11 "2005-12-01T03:53:06Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > NATO, and, primarily Clinton’s general, Wesley Clark, chose to do so. > > I’m not genuinely arguing that Clinton is exactly on par with Bush. But this was a Democratic administration fighting a war that bombed foriegn media outlets because they said they were propagandists (and to be fair, to some extent, they were). Don’t get me wrong: I’m a Democrat who voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry and, god willing will vote for Mark Warner in 08. But I’m just saying that the larger issue here is a little less partisan than we might like. I don’t disagree. And I believe just about any Democrat you ask will tell you that Rwanda in particular was a HUGE fuck up by the Clinton administration. The difference, at least in my opinion, is that the Clinton administration at least acknowledged the fuck ups made & apologized for them. To my knowledge, Bush II has never apologized for anything, and in fact has not only refused the fuck ups were fuck ups, has insisted that anyone calling them fuck ups and the wrong thing to do is un-American and quite possibly a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/12 "2005-12-01T04:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > If Clinton had decided to bomb an independent Germany-based media outlet because they were broadcasting footage of Serbian civilian casualties, then I think you might have an apt comparison. Obviously they are nto exactly the same. But the rationale isn’t all that different: this foriegn media outlet that we think is anti-american is airing things we think are hurting the war effort and propaganda for the enemy. True, it’s a lot more plausibly justified with the Serbians, but it’s still a line crossed that’s a little hard to re-draw. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/13 "2005-12-01T04:23:11Z")
Maureen: I agree with you concerning you quote in the OP. Just a thread away though is this: > **[The Republicans are swine cunts](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326)** > > I hear that fucker Bush on the news today blathering more about Iraq. Rumsfeld’s voice. “That would send the wrong message if we did this or that.” Fuck you! The gig is up, the mainstream press is becoming openly disdainful of anything the Cunt in... So, I’ll see you **Crazy neocon poster** and raise you **five moronic rabid left wing nutjobs** ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/14 "2005-12-01T04:23:55Z")
Maureen: I agree with you concerning your quote in the OP. Just a thread away though is this: > **[The Republicans are swine cunts](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326)** > > I hear that fucker Bush on the news today blathering more about Iraq. Rumsfeld’s voice. “That would send the wrong message if we did this or that.” Fuck you! The gig is up, the mainstream press is becoming openly disdainful of anything the Cunt in... So, I’ll see your **Crazy neocon poster** and raise you **five moronic rabid left wing nutjobs** ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/15 "2005-12-01T04:30:58Z")
Well, the crazy dude is right in one respect - just because it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s propaganda. Yes, Al-jazeera could be said to be putting forth propaganda. So could the US Army. So could Bush. So could whatever media outlet you suggest. Any information, when it shows one side in a good or bad light, whether it’s true or not, is propaganda, and can be used as the same by others. Doesn’t mean it would be allowed, or moral to bomb them - or threatening to do the same in order to make them change their broadcasts. Imagine if someone bombed CNN HQ, or even Fox - while I may not agree with everything they put forth, or the style in which they do so, what right do I have to stop them? Or to kill people doing so? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/16 "2005-12-01T04:39:03Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > True, it’s a lot more plausibly justified with the Serbians, but it’s still a line crossed that’s a little hard to re-draw. Alia iacta est. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/17 "2005-12-01T04:40:50Z")
Whoops. “just because it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s **not** propaganda” ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/18 "2005-12-01T04:52:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Maureen: > > I agree with you concerning you quote in the OP. > > Just a thread away though is this: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326) > > So, I’ll see you **Crazy neocon poster** and raise you **five moronic rabid left wing nutjobs** _sigh_… We weren’t supposed to start spreading that porcine genetics experiment rumor for another week! ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/19 "2005-12-01T05:00:14Z")
The OP was mine, dammit! _shakes fist_ The main difference here, is that AJ is HQ’ed out of Qatar. This just happens to be one of those countries in the Coalition of the Willing ™. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/20 "2005-12-01T05:06:45Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > The OP was mine, dammit! > > _shakes fist_ Yeah, sorry. I guess I just wanted to talk to **Maureen** > [@](#): > > The main difference here, is that AJ is HQ’ed out of Qatar. This just happens to be one of those countries in the Coalition of the Willing ™. “Willing” just doesn’t cut it any more. We expect rabid enthusiasm in exchange for respecting the fourth estate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498.md?page=2)