# Right wingnuts scare me... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498 "2005-12-01T02:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/21 "2005-12-01T05:22:51Z")
I just don’t see the point in compromising our ideals when we want another country to actually follow them in some fashion. I mean, we **are** trying to help Iraq set up a liberal democracy, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/22 "2005-12-01T06:46:18Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > I mean, we **are** trying to help Iraq set up a liberal democracy, right? Right? Aren’t we idealistic… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/23 "2005-12-01T07:24:44Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > I mean, we **are** trying to help Iraq set up a liberal democracy, right? Right? “Liberal”? Hell, no! Not this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/24 "2005-12-01T07:31:13Z")
Liberal in the governmental sense, not the policy sense. I.E.: America under Bush is a liberal democracy with conservative policies. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/25 "2005-12-01T07:35:33Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > I mean, we **are** trying to help Iraq set up a liberal democracy, right? Right? That statement is no longer operative. Our current objective is to extract our foot from a bear trap without inadvertently triggering a horrifyingly vicious and quickly-expanding holy war. We manage that trick, we can claim success. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_The\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bill\_The\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_The_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/26 "2005-12-01T19:54:13Z")
I’m right with the OP. For every small slip that Bush makes, there’s 500 right-wing nutjobs who claim that the slip was intentional or that Clinton greased the floor. I think Bush is a little dim, but quite honestly, I don’t expect Presidents to be much more than a pretty face. It’s the nutjobs that surround him that make me nervous. _We found chemical weapons in Iraq, Mister President! Only environazis believe in global warming, Mister President! Deficits are good because they prevent people from spending too much in the future, Mister President! Torture is unreliable and ineffective, but if we don’t have the right to use it then the terrorists will win, Mister President!_ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/27 "2005-12-01T20:50:06Z")
Boo. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/28 "2005-12-01T20:55:02Z")
Howl. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/29 "2005-12-01T21:04:29Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Maureen: > > I agree with you concerning you quote in the OP. > > Just a thread away though is this: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347326) > > So, I’ll see you **Crazy neocon poster** and raise you **five moronic rabid left wing nutjobs** No, you’re more than moronic for all of us. Plenty shrill enough too. Remember this little bit? Ever the voice of reason. (Bolding by me)… > [@Scylla](#): > > … When Finn says our soldiers are torturing dozens to death he is making an implication that characterizes our armed forces in general. > > Our soldiers do not deserve to be so characterized unless it can positively be demonstrated to the highest standard that it is true. > > That has not been done. > > \*\*It’s treason. You’re a scumbag if you do it. To do such a thing is to betray your country. You’re not supporting our soldiers if you do it, you’re indicting them. A person that does so does not deserve the freedoms they’ve betrayed. > > I can’t put it in stronger terms\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/30 "2005-12-01T21:18:57Z")
The press is OK when you buy them (from IMDB): > [@](#): > > U.S. Paying for Favorable News on Iraqi TV, Newspapers > > The U.S. military has been secretly paying Iraqi newspapers and television stations via a defense contractor to run news stories favorable to the United States, the Los Angeles Times disclosed today (Wednesday), citing unnamed U.S. military officials and documents obtained by the newspaper. The Times said that the articles were planted in the Iraqi media by the Washington-based Lincoln Group, whose staff, or its subcontractors, sometimes pose as freelance reporters or advertising executives when they deliver the stories to the media outlets. One senior Pentagon official who opposes the practice told the Times: “Here we are trying to create the principles of democracy in Iraq. Every speech we give in that country is about democracy. And we’re breaking all the first principles of democracy when we’re doing it.” The newspaper noted that besides its contract with the military in Iraq, Lincoln Group also won a $100-million contract with U.S. Special Operations Command to help “develop a strategic communications campaign.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/31 "2005-12-01T21:21:01Z")
Nope. That’s not shrill. Not moronic either. Sorry. On a related note: What to you guys do, have a special google search tool that you use to catalog all of **Scylla’s** posts? I’ve never seen a poster so often searched and quoted, and for so little cause. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/32 "2005-12-01T21:21:05Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > You know the people I’m talking about. Not just your average, well-spoken conservative (of which we have many on these boards that I’m quite thankful for), but the people who say things that just make your jaw drop. In other words: **Brutus**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/33 "2005-12-01T21:25:12Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Nope. That’s not shrill. Not moronic either. Do y’all have a different dictionary than the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/34 "2005-12-01T21:42:44Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Nope. That’s not shrill. Not moronic either. Sorry. > > On a related note: What to you guys do, have a special google search tool that you use to catalog all of **Scylla’s** posts? I’ve never seen a poster so often searched and quoted, and for so little cause. No need to search, I was a participant in the thread where that took place. When the comment came up (by guess who), I jst had to run back and grab a great example of Shrill and Moronic for all of us to savor once again. P.S. I’m not too sure about you either 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/35 "2005-12-01T22:23:13Z")
Okay, I’m sorry for making a flip and quasi-driveby post to answer you **Debaser**. With more meat on the bones: It is moronic to state that because a certain number of prisoners died due to our actions that that characterizes our armed forces in general. Only someone addicted to groupthink would possibly consider that to be an indictment of the military in general. If, for instance, someone said “At several hospitals in the US there have been many cases of medical malpractice,” would that person be guilty of indicting all doctors everywhere, or even all doctors in the US? ’ If someone went on a hyper-angry lunatic binge while foaming at the mouth and claiming that someone was “slandering all doctors and as such didn’t deserve medical care” wouldn’t you question just where their anger, and agenda, were based? If someone is furious at someone for “indicting all doctors in the country” when no such thing happened, does it not point to something… odd, going on? In addition, as I pointed out at the time of that trainwreck, there most certianly was evidence, mountains and mountains of it, including evidence of systemic failures and systemic coverups. That such evidence could be interpreted various ways was not being questioned, but to cast the debate in terms of ‘amerca hating’ ‘treason’ ‘betraying your country’ and ‘malicious lies’ was, indeed, both shrill and moronic. And as **Steve** said nobody needs to search for these things. A rabid hateful angry lunatic tends to leave an impression in one’s mind. /hijack ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/36 "2005-12-01T22:37:27Z")
> [@](#): > > It is moronic to state that because a certain number of prisoners died due to our actions that that characterizes our armed forces in general. Only someone addicted to groupthink would possibly consider that to be an indictment of the military in general. Without in any way defending what **Scylla** posted, I believe I can at least shed some light on the rationale (heh) behind it. One of the things service members are indoctrinated to think is what one does, so do you all. You are not an individual. You are a team. You wear the same uniform, eat the same food, sleep at the same time, work toward the same goals. You are one unit. What reflects on one reflects on the whole. If you screw up, you have caused your entire unit to screw up, and that reflects badly not just on you but on everyone\*. So while I disagree with the statement, I understand why he thinks that way. As an ex-service member, I have to say I’m ashamed that the soldiers at Abu Gharib wore the same uniform as I. \*As dehumanizing as it sounds, it is designed to save lives. Working together as a cohesive unit makes you protective of each other. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/37 "2005-12-02T04:54:07Z")
Thanks for clearing up my ignorance on that topic **Maureen**. I’m pretty sure you’d agree that the frothing, raging crazyness was somewhat beyond the pale, but you’ve at least helped me understand a possible motivation for such lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/38 "2005-12-02T07:11:27Z")
I have to say that actually clears up a few things for me as well. I have, on more then one occasion, been told that I shouldn’t debase “the military” when I have only railed against the actions of a few. I never understood why, no matter how many times I explained I was only condemning the actions of the guilty parties involved, the people I would be conversing with couldn’t get past it. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/39 "2005-12-02T15:04:41Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It is moronic to state that because a certain number of prisoners died due to our actions that that characterizes our armed forces in general. Only someone addicted to groupthink would possibly consider that to be an indictment of the military in general. > > If, for instance, someone said “At several hospitals in the US there have been many cases of medical malpractice,” would that person be guilty of indicting all doctors everywhere, or even all doctors in the US? ’ I didn’t participate in or read that thread. It’s a six page trainwreck that I’ve just skimmed through. It’s completely dishonest for your to compare your statements in that thread to the hypothetical one you made about doctors. The doctor statement is limited, reasonable, and true. The statements in the thread are over the top, unreasonable, and false. If you made a comparable statement about the US military to the one about doctors then you might have a point. Something like “At several prisons under control of the US military, there have been cases of abuse.” is a reasonable statement and not one that would have led **Scylla** to call you a traitor I bet. However, that’s not what you was doing. Here are a quick list of some choice gems: > [@Finn](#): > > “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he become a monster. > And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes back into you.” > [@](#): > > Wow… so even without the “Koran flushing”, you think all the instances of torture murder and rape that’ve occured in our prisons don’t matter? > [@](#): > > And what of all the innocents we’ve captured and tortured? > [@](#): > > We have chosen, of our own free will, to, in several ways, become the thing we said we were fighting. > [@](#): > > What about the dozens of people who’ve died under torture by our forces? What does it say that such things can happen over, and over, and over again, and nobody stops them? If that doesn’t point to systemic problem, I don’t know what does. This is all just from your first two posts in the thread. After all of this, **Scylla** still didn’t call you a traitor. He only said that he would consider you a traitor if he couldn’t back up these accusations with proof. You couldn’t. Now you bring this baggage up in another thread, with no link to the original (I had to search to find it) and you grossly mis-represent your statements. I think we can safely add “liar” to your resume now, traitor. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498/40 "2005-12-02T15:26:16Z")
Glad that after your ‘thorough skimming’ you’re going to spout off here. [We need more keyboard warriors.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/finnagain/InternetCommando.jpg) > [@Debaser](#): > > It’s completely dishonest for your to compare your statements in that thread to the hypothetical one you made about doctors. The doctor statement is limited, reasonable, and true. The statements in the thread are over the top, unreasonable, and false. Are you wrong or lying? Over the top? They were all literally true. Unreasonable? As I showed with many, many cites an estimate of 24 was the absolute lowest reasonable estimate one could make. False? Have you done any fucking reading before babbling here, did you check on the multitude of links I provided in that thread and the one I link to when taking Uppy to task? > [@Debaser](#): > > If you made a comparable statement about the US military to the one about doctors then you might have a point. Something like “At several prisons under control of the US military, there have been cases of abuse.” is a reasonable statement and not one that would have led **Scylla** to call you a traitor I bet. Are you disingenuous or dense? That’s the semantic value of what I said, except that many people happened to be ‘abused’ badly enough that they died. > [@Debaser](#): > > However, that’s not what you was doing. Are you stupid and ignorant or purposefully inflamatory? -I pointed out with the Neitzche quote that we had a responsbility to be better than those we fought, after it was said that we could act in an abhorent manner because they did to. -There **were** instances of torture and murder. People have been charged with it. At least one congressman who saw the photos has gone on record as confirming it. -We **have** captured and tortured innocents. Not just many who were at Abu Graib and other places, but Maher Arar would disagree with your bullshit. - We **have** decided in many ways to become what we are fighting. We deliberately torture prisoners. > [@Debaser](#): > > This is all just from your first two posts in the thread. Wow, my first two posts were factually accurate. Pull me up a chair, I feel faint. > [@Debaser](#): > > After all of this, **Scylla** still didn’t call you a traitor. He only said that he would consider you a traitor if he couldn’t back up these accusations with proof. > You couldn’t. Liar. Your inability to do anything more than “skim” a thread does not constitute a failure to provide proof on mine. Lazy liar. > [@Debaser](#): > > Now you bring this baggage up in another thread, with no link to the original (I had to search to find it) and you grossly mis-represent your statements. Again you’re lying? Idiot. Do you think that the posts in this thread will vanish because you’re a lying piece of shit? I didn’t bring it up in this thread you damned liar, and anybody who can fucking read already knows that. Are you really stupid enough to lie about what anybody can see with their own eyes? You didn’t even read the fucking thread, you “skimmed” it, you intellectually dishonest whore. > [@Debaser](#): > > I think we can safely add “liar” to your resume now, traitor. No, but we can to yours. Fucking lying piece of shit. And awfully cute with the ‘traitor’ bullshit, but I’m afraid that reading the news (as opposed to “skimming” it), doesn’t make one a traitor. You’re pathetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/right-wingnuts-scare-me/333498.md?page=3)