# "Ring Around the Rosie" a plague reference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248 "2000-07-28T18:27:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tdonald](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@tdonald](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdonald)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/1 "2000-07-28T18:27:46Z")
“Ring around the rosie, Pockets full of posies, Ashes, ashes (achoo, achoo?) All fall down” Is this children’s rhyme a reference to the Black Plague? I’ve seen arguments that claim the “rosie” is the physical symptom of bubonic plague, “posies” refer to trying to eliminate the smell of death, “ashes”, not sure, and “all fall down” is the end result e.g. mass death. I’m not sure if I believe one has anything to do with another so obviously I need the Straight Dope! have a positive day, TD ---
**Author:** ![CandyMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@CandyMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandyMan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/2 "2000-07-28T18:32:30Z")
ashes ashes refers to the burning of the bodies CandyMan ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/3 "2000-07-28T18:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > First, the rhyme’s not old enough. Second, the early versions are clearly not about the plague. > > The earliest printed source for the rhyme dates from 1881. A folklore book published in 1883 claims that versions of the rhyme were circulating in Massachusetts in 1790, but no printed evidence is available. > > This earlier date is 125 years after the last major plague of the English-speaking world, and roughly 450 years after the Black Death, the 14th century plague most commonly associated with the poem. > > Furthermore, as the variations page demonstrates, most early versions of the rhyme would be extremely difficult to interpret as references to the plague. Folklorists have come up with far more plausible explanations for the origins of the rhyme: see the answer to Question 8, below. \*Source: [http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/ring.html](http://www.ualberta.ca/~imunro/ring.html) \* For what it’s worth I thought it was about the plague too. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Silver\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Fire)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/4 "2000-07-28T18:41:21Z")
I remember learning about this in 9th grade history. Yep, a reference to the Black Plague. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/5 "2000-07-28T18:48:23Z")
I too remember it being a reference to the plague. but the “Ashes” part, IIRC was not the burning of the bodies (if you look in the poem the ashes comes before the we all fall down, ie die), but “Atchoo” as in they’d sneeze. but, now that I’m thinking about it as an adult, did they SAY atchoo then??? anyhow, my 5 cents (adjusted for inflation)😕 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/6 "2000-07-28T19:21:00Z")
Cecil covered this in _More of the Straight Dope_ on pages 478-79. Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 87-91358 ISBN: 0-345-34145-2 The article doesn’t appear to be available on line, so I guess you’ll have to cough up the measly 10 bucks to get the full benefit of Cecil’s Wisdom. Cecilian Wisdom is a bargain at any price. ---
**Author:** ![CandyMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@CandyMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandyMan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/7 "2000-07-28T19:27:02Z")
OK, I sit corrected… Now, _I_ prefer you go out and buy the book, but here is a quick URL to get you through in the mean time. Not nearly as cool as any words from Cecil… [http://www.snowcrest.net/geography/videos/blackdeath/](http://www.snowcrest.net/geography/videos/blackdeath/) ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/8 "2000-07-28T21:42:39Z")
It’s false. Here is another statement: > **[Urban Legends Store](https://shop.urbanlegends.com)** > > Shop exclusive music from the Official Urban Legends Store. ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/9 "2000-07-28T22:41:46Z")
I used to watch old Disney cartoons while exercising before work very early in the morning (The Ink and Paint Club, started at 4 AM at that time). One of the cartoons explained lots of the old nursery rhymes, about Little Jack Horner, London Bridge, and Humpty Dumpty (I can’t remember for sure but I think Humpty Dumpty was supposed to be Cromwell). I had heard from some unremembered source that people were able to criticize their sovereign through rhymes and thus were less likely to be beheaded. Anyone else hear this? ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/10 "2000-07-29T00:18:20Z")
Im pretty sure that the whole “black plague” tie-in is a crock. Seems like just a thing English and history teachers like to throw at you for shock value. Plus most UL sites, and I believe Cecil, say its only about a hundred and fifty years old. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/11 "2000-07-29T00:21:00Z")
It may well be an urban legend, but it’s surprising how widely believed it is. The London Dungeon (the grim version of Madame Tussaud’s, with plenty of waxwork gore) adheres to the story about it being plague-related, with “a pocket full of posies” supposedly referring to the boils/sores around the armpits of victims. ---
**Author:** ![Zinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e95f7d/32.png) [@Zinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zinger)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ring-around-the-rosie-a-plague-reference/27248/12 "2000-07-29T01:55:24Z")
They told us in school this year that it is… I’m kinda curious, myself… 😕