# Rings for Hobbits? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [February 21, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120 "2023-02-21T02:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/21 "2023-02-21T10:24:28Z")
All of the important Men were part Numenoran, weren’t they? Aragorn was, but I forget if Denethor had any blood. Would Sauron have tried sending him a Ring in different circumstances? And I confess wondering how half-and part elves would respond to a Ring? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/22 "2023-02-21T11:17:17Z")
Hobbits are a branch of humanity (cite: footnote to [Letter 131](https://www.tolkienestate.com/letters/letter-to-milton-waldman-publisher-1951/)). So they technically are eligible for the 9 and don’t need their own set. They’d just need to meet the qualifications Are we ever told how tall _all_ the _Nazgûl_ are? I see a very _different_ character arc for Poppy Proudfellow in season 2 of Rings of Power… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/23 "2023-02-21T11:46:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are we ever told how tall _all_ the _Nazgûl_ are? I see a very _different_ character arc for Poppy Proudfellow in season 2 of Rings of Power… They could levitate in those cloaks. Or you get two Little Wraiths to stand on each other’s shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/24 "2023-02-21T13:01:09Z")
I just happen to be rewatching BoJack Horseman these days and now I have a picture in my head of three hobbits in a tall cloak, with a broom sticking out of one arm hole and a mannequin hand sticking out of the other. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![up2eleven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/up2eleven/32/13432_2.png) [@up2eleven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up2eleven)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/25 "2023-02-21T13:33:41Z")
“We’re here to do a business. Let’s meet over second breakfast.” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/26 "2023-02-21T14:12:43Z")
Three halflings in a trenchcoat: [![](https://i.redd.it/4hmu71w4t0731.jpg) ](https://i.redd.it/4hmu71w4t0731.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/27 "2023-02-21T16:22:16Z")
> [@up2eleven](#): > > I wish I could help, but try as I might, I could never get through The Silmarillion. I finally grokked Sil when I read it with a copy of Fonstad’s “Atlas of Middle Earth” on my lap. Then it all came together. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/28 "2023-02-21T16:27:06Z")
I do feel like the opening of the Silmarillion would turn off less people if it was at the back as an Appendix type entry. Start with the more actiony stuff. I loved the Silmarillion I see the flaws with the layout of it. So much of the Silmarillion is really good but many give up after the first chapter or two. * * * * * * > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Had Sauron known about Hobbits, would he have made Rings for them, too? What trait would they take advantage of? Hobbits are simple folk. What would tempt them that Sauron could take advantage of? I don’t think Sauron would have bothered about the farmer-folk. As to appealing to them. We saw a sample of the One-Ring playing on Sam’s mind. Gardens and potatoes!. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/29 "2023-02-21T16:29:51Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > All of the important Men were part Numenoran, weren’t they? Aragorn was, but I forget if Denethor had any blood. Would Sauron have tried sending him a Ring in different circumstances? And I confess wondering how half-and part elves would respond to a Ring? Denethor and the average citizen of Gondor (and Arnor) were all of Numenorean ancestry, just not of the main royal lines that would have been considered candidates for heir to the Kingship. Of course they also had some ancestors who were not of Numenor, such as Galador, lord of Dol Amroth, who was the son of Mithrellas, a Silvan elf. Sauron did send a ring to at least one of the “black” Numenoreans, those people whom worshiped him before the fall of Numenor and migrated to settlements of Umbar. As JRRT stated in **Akallabeth** : > among those whom he ensnared with the [Nine Rings](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/n/ninerings.html) three were great lords of [Númenórean](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/n/numenoreans.html) race’, and indeed three of these names are [Númenórean](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/n/numenorean.html) in form: Murazor, Akhorahil and Adunaphel. As for ‘half elf’ susceptibility to the rings of power; I suspect/guess those that chose to be Eldar (Elrond, Luthien) would have the inherent elven greater resistance while those who chose to be mortal (Elros, Elladan, Elrohir, Arwen) would be at greater risk. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/30 "2023-02-21T16:33:20Z")
**Elladan** & **Elrohir** choice was not stated. They just hadn’t decided yet by the end of what the Professor reported on. Unless you know of some passage from the Professor I’ve missed all these years. * * * Where did you find the names of the Ringwraiths, I don’t remember seeing those and that was something I was hoping would be in the Histories way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/31 "2023-02-21T16:35:21Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Elladan** & **Elrohir** choice was not stated. They just hadn’t decided yet by the end of what the Professor reported on. Unless you know of some passage from the Professor I’ve missed all these years. If one goes strictly by what is said in The Lord of the Rings, then one would have to conclude that Elladan and Elrohir chose mortality. In LotR it is stated that Elrond’s children were to depart with him from Middle-earth, or remain and become Mortal. They are specifically stated to have stayed behind. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/32 "2023-02-21T16:38:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Where did you find the names of the Ringwraiths, I don’t remember seeing those and that was something I was hoping would be in the Histories way back when. It’s in **The Akallabeth**. Haven’t you gotten your copy of **The Fall of Numenor** yet? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/33 "2023-02-21T16:42:17Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > If one goes strictly by what is said in The Lord of the Rings, then one would have to conclude that Elladan and Elrohir chose mortality. In LotR it is stated that Elrond’s children were to depart with him from Middle-earth, or remain and become Mortal. They are specifically stated to have stayed behind. For the life of me, I do not recall that. They dwelt in Rivendell after Elrond left. A few years later Celeborn (Their Grandfather) tired of a fading Lorien and joined them. But I can’t find anything that states they had to make their choice when Elrond left. In fact … In Letter #153, “The end of [Elrond’s] sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/34 "2023-02-21T16:48:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > For the life of me, I do not recall that. They dwelt in Rivendell after Elrond left. A few years later Celeborn (Their Grandfather) tired of a fading Lorien and joined them. But I can’t find anything that states they had to make their choice when Elrond left. From ROTK appendices: _But to the children of Elrond a choice was also appointed: to pass with him from the circles of the world; or if they remained, to become mortal and die in Middle-earth. For Elrond, therefore, all chances of the War of the Ring were fraught with sorrow._ Yes, it’s true that JRRT later waffled more than a bit about that in his letters, (he did a LOT of retconning in his later letters and unpublished notes) but if we go by what is stated more canonically in LOTR itself, there’s a strong implication they stayed. In The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter 153 dated September 1954, we find a discussion of the matter of the Half-elven: > Eärendil is Tuor’s son & father of Elros (First King of Númenor) and Elrond, their mother being Elwing daughter of Dior, son of Beren and Lúthien: so the problem of the Half-elven becomes united in one line. The view is that the Half-elven have a power of (irrevocable) choice, which may be delayed but not permanently, which kin’s fate they will share. Elros chose to be a King and ‘longaevus’ but mortal, so all his descendants are mortal, and of a specially noble race, but with dwindling longevity: so Aragorn (who, however, has a greater life-span than his contemporaries, double, though not the original Númenórean treble, that of Men). Elrond chose to be among the Elves. His children—with a renewed Elvish strain, since their mother was Celebrían dtr. of Galadriel—have to make their choices. Arwen is not a ‘re-incarnation’ of Lúthien (that in the view of this mythical history would be impossible, since Lúthien has died like a mortal and left the world of time) but a descendant very like her in looks, character, and fate. When she weds Aragorn (whose love-story elsewhere recounted is not here central and only occasionally referred to) she ‘makes the choice of Lúthien’, so the grief at her parting from Elrond is specially poignant. Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while. In the end, seems JRRT himself was uncertain of what they did. Which is cool. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/35 "2023-02-21T16:54:43Z")
I think even the lines in the appendices allow for the delay by the pair. It doesn’t really indicate they had to decide by the time he boarded the White Ship. The letter confirms this. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/36 "2023-02-21T16:57:50Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I think even the lines in the appendices allow for the delay by the pair. To me, the phrase “to pass with him” implies simultaneity, but that’s just my parsing of it, and I agree other interpretations are not unreasonable. Definitely a Kor I’m not willing to die on. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/37 "2023-02-21T16:58:47Z")
Agreed. As I had the Letters before the Histories, I tend to rely on them heavily. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/38 "2023-02-21T17:08:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The impression I get is that would have thought they weren’t worth trying to control. Probably, but a factor overriding that was that they weren’t even a gleam in Yavenna’s eye yet. The rings of power’s forgings were started about [II 1500](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r8IwbJEwN0) and continued for some decades past that. Hobbits’ origins are largely unknown but I would put [their beginnings](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Hobbits) late in the Second Age. [The Shire](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/shire.html) was not founded until III 1601. > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Or you get two Little Wraiths to stand on each other’s shoulders. The tradition of [two kids in a trenchcoat](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/two-kids-in-a-trenchcoat) is alive even today. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/39 "2023-02-21T17:46:47Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > > [@up2eleven](#): > > > > I wish I could help, but try as I might, I could never get through The Silmarillion. > > I finally grokked Sil when I read it with a copy of Fonstad’s “Atlas of Middle Earth” on my lap. Then it all came together. I had finally sat down to read The Silmarillion a couple of months ago. An online interactive map of Beleriand really helped. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120/40 "2023-02-21T18:03:22Z")
A recurring theme we see over and over again is hobbits’ main quality being _stealth_. Every hobbit Ringbearer uses it chiefly to hide. To what extent that can be “corrupted” I see chiefly as hobbits serving as spies, saboteurs or possibly assassins in the service of Sauron. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rings-for-hobbits/980120.md?page=3)