# Rioting in Sweden! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-in-sweden/659101 "2013-05-23T07:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-in-sweden/659101/141 "2013-05-30T23:09:41Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Right, although what kind of crimes were being committed? I’m not sure there was anything approaching the kind of generous welfare state that Sweden is renowned for. So you might expect more property type crimes. But Sweden appears to have experienced a significant rise in s8xual assaults (see links above) coinciding with people coming from cultures with very different attitudes towards women. I don’t think there is any parallel in that respect. Of course, the [Swedish commission that examined those numbers](http://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2011-01-18-how-common-is-rape-in-sweden-compared-to-other-european-countries.html) pointed out that Sweden has the most liberal definition of “rape,” (and other personal assault crimes), in the world. Before one joins Daniel Greenfield in leaping to the conclusion that the addition of Muslims to Sweden has led to a staggering rise in rapes, one should first find out when the Swedes instituted their current definition of rape and then make sure that the rise is not due to new definitions rather than more events. Greenfield’s chart shows the spike beginning in 2004. Where are the numbers that show that the Middle Eastern or Muslim immigrant population spiked at the same time. Mr. Greenfield appears to be engaging in the _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ fallacy to make his claim. > [@Chen019](#): > > I agree overall comparisons are difficult with the US, but just in terms of your point about unemployment, [Walsh cites some interesting studies](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=vgHgNsmZ3vsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=asian&f=false): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > research in city after city showed that Asian Americans living in high crime areas has lower crime rates than any other racial/ethnic group living in the same area (Shaw & McKay 1972). Wilson and Herrnstein (1985) point out that although a Chinese neighbourhood in San Francisco in the 1960’s had the highest rate of poverty and unemployment, the greatest percentage of substandard housing, as well as other disabilities, only five Chinese Americans were committed to prison in 1965 in the whole state of California. So, to get your numbers, you have to go back to 1965, (at a time when unemployment was quite low and before the Asian immigrant community had begun to actually assume a large size–note that I pointed to the 1970s, not 1965), ignoring the point I made regarding the later burgeoning of crime in Asian communities that occurred when unemployment began to get much higher, while continuing to make your comparison against current Swedish conditions in which unemployment is already quite high. Interesting, but not persuasive. > [@Chen019](#): > > In relation to jewish americans, [Walsh notes](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=vgHgNsmZ3vsC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=jewish&f=false) that from 1900 to 1915 when many lived in slums they were 15.9% of overall prosecutions but 25.4% of the population in NY. Even that appears to have been a one generation thing. And for how many generations have the immigrants to Sweden under discussion been engaged in crime or rioting? > [@Chen019](#): > > There is a breakdown of 1st & 2nd generation rates [here](http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p413/jmalloynyc/Picture3-2.png) (Peter Martens, 1997). Would be interesting to see a follow up. You are correct that it would be interesting to see data that is not 24+ years old. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-in-sweden/659101.md?page=7)