# Rioting - is the U.S. next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159 "2011-08-10T02:28:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/101 "2011-08-11T11:36:16Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > They do work when they’re actually used. Young people in the UK vote less than older people. The young have no right to complain about being disenfranchised. Less does not mean not at all. On those grounds alone, i’m pretty sure either the UK or the U.S. has a higher overall voter turnout; clearly the lower country has no right to complain about being disenfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/102 "2011-08-11T11:37:47Z")
Young people just about everywhere vote less than their elders, but it’s London that’s burning this week, not some other major city. Why is that? The UK has a problem, that much is obvious. You can either try to hide it under the carpet, or actually take a good hard look at your country and ask _why_ this happened. Not to excuse it, but to figure out the actual source of this problem. Of course, that means facing up to the fact your society is flawed (just like every other society that has ever existed) and maybe making some uncomfortable changes in your own bubble of existence. It might mean admitting that, even if there is a _chance_ a poor youth could climb out of the ghetto that playing field _isn’t_ level and there _really is_ a disadvantage to being born in the class on the bottom of society and some of the changes in the UK over the past 20-30 years have impacted some groups more than others, and in negative ways. If you were playing cards and found out the deck was stacked against you, you’d be angry, wouldn’t you? So why are you surprised that there are angry young people when they find out _life_ is stacked against them? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/103 "2011-08-11T15:14:01Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > I think we might see our next riots. . . when/if Obama loses in 2012. . . or when Medicare or other social programs crash. So, probably pretty soon. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > You mean just like when there were riots after McCain lost or Gore lost? :rolleyes: That’s different. You see, Obama has more support from people who are, um, _urban_, and we know how those people are when they don’t get what they want. Right? This kind of nonsense has been floating around since mid-2008, if not earlier. If I never have to read it again, it’ll be too soon. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/104 "2011-08-11T15:17:41Z")
> [@ChrisMatthews\_ThrillUpHisLeg](#): > > I think you know where the riots will be … wherever those that suck at the govt. teet live. So the south? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/105 "2011-08-11T15:20:50Z")
Seems to me we have rioting all the time, not on political issues but instead on stupid shit like their team losing a championship, their team _winning_ a championship, or Wal-mart opening a few hours early the day after Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![AndyLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AndyLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyLee)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/106 "2011-08-11T23:48:39Z")
If you look at Wikipedia’s list of riots, you need to make distinction between, types of riots. I don’t consider a riot at a football game or college sports event to be on par with the Harlem Race riots or the Rodney King verdict riot. I would also excluse prison riots as they are localized. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisMatthews\_ThrillUpHisLeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@ChrisMatthews\_ThrillUpHisLeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisMatthews_ThrillUpHisLeg)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/107 "2011-08-12T00:58:25Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So the south? Definitely in places like Atlanta and New Orleans. They’ll hit the hipster urban areas where unarmed enablers live first. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/108 "2011-08-12T10:45:24Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So the south? London’s in the south. And it’s kept afloat by the government being based there, along with the big banks with their massive robbery of the tax payer. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/109 "2011-08-12T11:12:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Less does not mean not at all. On those grounds alone, i’m pretty sure either the UK or the U.S. has a higher overall voter turnout; clearly the lower country has no right to complain about being disenfranchised. What? Which country _is_ complaining about being disenfranchised, and what does it even mean for a country to be disenfranchised in the first place? > [@Broomstick](#): > > It might mean admitting that, even if there is a chance a poor youth could climb out of the ghetto that playing field isn’t level and there really is a disadvantage to being born in the class on the bottom of society and some of the changes in the UK over the past 20-30 years have impacted some groups more than others, and in negative ways. Why do you keep trying to blame it on poverty and social deprivation without actually establishing that the majority of looters were actually amongst the poorest in the country? You’re aware that there’s not a single borough in London that is in the most deprived areas in the UK, right? Eight of the ten most deprived areas in the UK are in the North West of England, which saw limited rioting compared to London, and only on the third day when it was clear that the Police in the capital had lost the plot and given tacit approval for people to go ballistic. Even where the rioting occurred in the North West it wasn’t actually in the most deprived areas. We didn’t see rioting in the West of Bury or outskirts of Blackpool where the most profound deprivation is found. Further, only in the UK could we see a riot that was largely organized via Facebook, Twitter and instant messaging services on £300 smart phones be labelled as the result of social deprivation. Anybody with access to Facebook, Twitter or these smartphones doesn’t know the meaning of the word social deprivation or poverty. It makes a mockery of the words for them to be used in this fashion. Finally, we’re seeing professionals, students, and so on, appear before the courts. How the hell does this fit your narrative? It seems you’ve latched on to a pet explanation and no amount of contrary evidence is going to shake you from your conviction that this is about social deprivation. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/110 "2011-08-12T11:45:55Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Why do you keep trying to blame it on poverty and social deprivation without actually establishing that the majority of looters were actually amongst the poorest in the country? Because until yesterday morning I simply did not have the information on who is being brought before the courts. I am now changing my mind based on _new information_ but apparently you’d rather keep dredging up my statements (and those of others) from earlier in the week when _no one could know_ what we know now. I don’t think there’s ever been a riot before where so many of the participants were positively identified and brought before the court, and certainly not so swiftly. That is to the credit of the UK police, as well as the abundance of CCTV and cellphone cameras. > [@](#): > > You’re aware that there’s not a single borough in London that is in the most deprived areas in the UK, right? Eight of the ten most deprived areas in the UK are in the North West of England, which saw limited rioting compared to London, and only on the third day when it was clear that the Police in the capital had lost the plot and given tacit approval for people to go ballistic. Based upon past history of riots, while it is common for it to be in the most blighted areas that not always the case - some of the worst rioting in the US in the 1960’s occurred not in the worst slums but elsewhere. However, again, you’re criticizing people on a message board where most of the participants have likely never been to Britain, much less London, and thus do not have your intimate knowledge of the place. I suppose you can rail at them if it makes you happy - or you can try to educate them. Entirely your choice. > [@](#): > > Anybody with access to Facebook, Twitter or these smartphones doesn’t know the meaning of the word social deprivation or poverty. It makes a mockery of the words for them to be used in this fashion. I made all of $12,000 last year - around 7,414 pounds - to support two people and unlike the British poor we receive no housing aid or cash from our government. Yet here I sit on the internet, and my spouse has a Facebook account, and we could easily be on Twitter if we chose, and I have a cellphone that _could_ be on the internet although I turned that option off (and I had to _choose_ to do it, because the default is “on”). So, contrary to what you choose to believe, yes, it is entirely possible for the poor to be on the social networks. Facebook and Twitter are free once you can get on the internet. Admittedly the PC I use for the internet isn’t terribly portable, not do I have the latest iPhone, but I’m hardly cut off. Where do we poor slobs get these things? Well, I got my PC back when I was employed and had money. Lots of people donate their old cellphones to various charities when they upgrade, at least over here, and quite a few of them wind up in the hands of the poor. I don’t know about the UK, but not only are the prices of the lower end electronics coming down - which all could handle social network sites - but there is also a brisk trade in used gear which is, of course, much cheaper than cutting edge. It’s as if someone sees a poor person driving a car and goes “OMG! How can that poor person afford a CAR? My god, do you know how much a new BMW costs?” when, in fact, said poor person is driving a 15 year old Toyota. I keep seeing this over and over (and it’s not directed solely at you) even as others point out this is not 1998 anymore and the technology is now accessible to almost anyone to one degree or another. > [@](#): > > Finally, we’re seeing professionals, students, and so on, appear before the courts. How the hell does this fit your narrative? This wasn’t seen until Thursday over here - so presumably it was Wednesday over in the UK when this was first seen. Are you looking at the dates on the posts you’re objecting to? If they were made Monday or Tuesday those people didn’t know then what we know now. If they were after the information was broadcast, well, feel free to keep swinging away I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/111 "2011-08-12T11:49:16Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Further, only in the UK could we see a riot that was largely organized via Facebook, Twitter and instant messaging services on £300 smart phones be labelled as the result of social deprivation. Anybody with access to Facebook, Twitter or these smartphones doesn’t know the meaning of the word social deprivation or poverty. What is with this meme that using social networking is a sign of being well-off? I agree that it seems a lot of looters have been from middle-class backgrounds, and are likely opportunists. “Access to Facebook and Twitter” was still _free_ last time I checked. The internet doesn’t charge, and neither of those services have fees. This isn’t the 1990s, when having a computer or mobile phone was expensive or said something about class. Everyone has potential access to the internet and nearly everyone has a mobile phone. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t think there’s ever been a riot before where so many of the participants were positively identified and brought before the court, and certainly not so swiftly. That is to the credit of the UK police, as well as the abundance of CCTV and cellphone cameras. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/112 "2011-08-12T16:37:04Z")
Do rioters ever accomplish anything, anyway, beyond damaging their own neighborhoods? What’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/113 "2011-08-12T16:44:09Z")
It’s way too hot in most of the country to riot right now. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/114 "2011-08-15T19:19:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Trying to pretend life is like a first person shooter game and fight 50 to 1 odds is indeed “playing Rambo”. > In America? I’d expect most of them to have at least one gun. So thousands, not hundreds. We don’t have to guess. During teh LA riots, folks had guns, rioters and shokeepers alike and generally speaking, the rioters didn’t rush into crossfire waving their guns, there were plenty of soft targets that weren’t protected by snipers on top of minimalls. Riots are a symptom of something seriously fucked up in society, it is not the righteous expression of the people’s will and outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/115 "2011-08-15T19:36:32Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > When you have no real political power, only through violence can you express dissatisfaction, and I think that was what the Parisians were doing. and do you think its possible taht this is at least in part what is going on in the UK? > [@](#): > > I have noticed that immigrant entrepreneurs tend to be the ones who defend their stores the most vehemently. I think this is often because they operate on razor thin margins, probably have inadequate insurance coverage, have no safety net, and are essentially fighting for their families to not be put out on the streets when they defend their business. I was there during the LA riots and a large part of what made the Koreans self police was when they saw all the cop cars driving through their burning neighborhoods to go protect places like beverly hills. It quickly became obvious that they were on their own and a call went out to the korean community (many of whom served in the military here or in Korea) to come to come to Koreatown and to bring your guns. Koreatown doesn’t operate on razorthin margins, their customers are largely the korean commnuity and a cup of coffee can cost you $10 in koreatown. Koreatown is not uninsurable. They just didn’t want the cultural epicenter of their community torched. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/116 "2011-08-15T19:55:42Z")
Rioting - is the U.S. next? God, I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/117 "2011-08-15T20:06:16Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > You make me sick sometimes Curtis. Here’s the [reason](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latasha_Harlins) the Korean American community feared they’d come under attack: a 51 year old Korean shopkeeper lady had shot an innocent black teenage girl in the back of the head just two weeks before the Rodney King incident. Korean shopkeeper lady was given _five years probation_ for that. > > I mean shit, guy, what’s wrong with you? Bad blood had been brewing between the black and korean community in LA for a while. The Latasha Harlin decision was a fucking travesty but the tension had been there for for a long time. Part of it was resentment by a poor perpetual underclass watching yet another immigrant community run past them chasing the American dream. Part of it was the perception among the black community that saw Korean liquor store owners selling alcohol to blacks and giving nothing back to the community other than more alcoholics. Part of it was the perception among koreans who were basically dealing with drunks and junkies all day that this was somehow representative of the black community’s population. Half the koreans wanted to reach out to other ethnic commmunities after the LA riots and the other half wanted to start a race war, both camps bought guns. ---
**Author:** ![Plumbkrazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Plumbkrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumbkrazy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/118 "2011-08-15T20:15:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do rioters ever accomplish anything, anyway, beyond damaging their own neighborhoods? What’s the point? In most cases, not much…just like a child throwing a tantrum and breaking one of his own toys in the process. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/119 "2011-08-18T21:03:53Z")
Since reasons why people riot was being discussed, I can’t resist linking to this [cracked.com](http://cracked.com) article. “The 5 most embarrassing things angry mobs have rioted over.” > **[The 5 Most Embarrassing Things Angry Mobs Have Rioted Over](https://www.cracked.com/article_19348_the-5-most-embarrassing-things-angry-mobs-have-rioted-over.html)** > > Humans don't need much of an excuse to start rioting. In fact we really don't need any excuse at all. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159/120 "2011-08-18T22:18:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do rioters ever accomplish anything, anyway, beyond damaging their own neighborhoods? What’s the point? Rapid redistribution of wealth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-is-the-u-s-next/592159.md?page=7)