# Rioting, Murderous Mob Transformed By 8 Hour Bus Ride **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909 "2005-09-03T16:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/41 "2005-09-03T23:29:40Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Just remember: “…over 600 weapons” were confiscated. That’s at last count. Who knows what that number is now? > > It sucks when the facts don’t agree with your “reality,” huh? Describe the weapons. Describe the weapons. Try to get into a local courthouse. Nail clippers are weappons. You got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/42 "2005-09-03T23:30:59Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > \*Originally Posted by Steph Infection > I believe that nobody should be forced to take in a murdering, raping crowd under any circumstances! . Do you disagree with this statement? Where am I saying “Don’t help anyone?” I’m speaking from the POV of the Astrodome officials. “Gee, they’ve destroyed the Superdome in New Orleans…why the hell should be \*forced \* to take that crowd in here and risk ruining _our_ facility? Screw the fact that they’ve been through hell, screw the fact that they’re starving and dying of thirst, screw being PC about it. We’re searching them for weapons.” Obviously, it was a good call. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/43 "2005-09-03T23:32:08Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Describe the weapons. Describe the weapons. Try to get into a local courthouse. Nail clippers are weappons. You got nothing. The weapons were such that the Astrodome officials clearly did not trust this crowd with them. If they were confiscating nail-clippers? Then they must have reason to believe this is a _very_ ugly crowd. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/44 "2005-09-03T23:34:47Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > None at all, which basically proves my point. Disarming a dangerous crowd before letting them in makes it vastly easier to control the situation. > > I have no idea just who was conducting the New Orleans weapons searches. A real bang-up job, huh? The initial crowd was searched for weapons. However refugees continued showing up at the Superdome as the water continued to rise. (No cite, but I saw it myself on cable news.) Also, after the rain stopped people were allowed outside. (Again, no cite, just what I saw on CNN.) Given that people were dying of dehydration, I doubt the top priority was making absolutely sure no one had contraband nail files. And that’s mostly the sort of “weapon” we’re talking about here. Scissors, nailfiles, pocketknives – the sort of stuff you get taken away from you if you try to board a plane with it. (At least that’s the sort of stuff that the guardsmen were confiscating in New Orleans according to the CNN reports I watched. The news report you cite says nothing about guns, only generic “weapons”.) I want a cite on your “dangerous crowd” remark above. Dangerous? Did they riot? Attack the guardsmen? Set fire to the dome? What? Sure there were crimes committed in the dome. It’s hard to imagine that you could round up that many people at random without getting a handful of criminals mixed in. But all the evidence shows that the trashing of the dome wasn’t the result of a malicious crowd, but rather the result of too many people packed into too small a space for too long without adequate food, water, or sanitation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/45 "2005-09-03T23:36:45Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > The weapons were such that the Astrodome officials clearly did not trust this crowd with them. If they were confiscating nail-clippers? Then they must have reason to believe this is a _very_ ugly crowd. Dude, they confiscated nail clippers from people entering the Superdome on Sunday. I SAW it with my own eyes on CNN. At the time I remember thinking “wow, that’s kind of harsh.” So maybe you should take that “600 weapons” story with a grain of salt, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/46 "2005-09-03T23:41:24Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > The weapons were such that the Astrodome officials clearly did not trust this crowd with them. If they were confiscating nail-clippers? Then they must have reason to believe this is a _very_ ugly crowd. There you go with your not so fancy footwork again. Who said they were confiscating nail clippers? My point is that you are unable to define them as anything but weapons. Other posters have pointed out that many things can be considered weapons, and and in the absence of any particulars you have no business trotting out "600 Weapon! 600 weapons! like some Barney Fife wannabe. One cop said. 600 weapons. You got nothing. Of course, the crowd is not well-behaved because it the first time in 5 days that they have been treated like humans beings. It’s the absence of the 600 weapons. What were those weapons, again? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/47 "2005-09-03T23:42:19Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > They had no food or water but they felt that guns and knives were important enough to hang onto? Were they planning on using them? There _were_ rapes and murders (!) earlier this week. It’s not unreasonable to think that many of these people are criminals. Uh, you just said yourself there were several rapes. If I were one of those people, you better BELIEVE I’d keep a knife on me. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/48 "2005-09-03T23:44:28Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Your lack of a cite speaks volumes. [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Hurricane_Katrina_on_New_Orleans) is a cite, asshole. > [@](#): > > In an afternoon news conference, Gov. Blanco said that the number of evacuees in the Superdome was down to 2,500; however, the AP reported that by Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. Evacuees from across the city swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/49 "2005-09-03T23:45:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Uh, you just said yourself there were several rapes. If I were one of those people, you better BELIEVE I’d keep a knife on me. Don’t be silly. The Second Amendment only applies to rich, white people. Not poor, black ones. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/50 "2005-09-03T23:46:35Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Do you disagree with this statement? Where am I saying “Don’t help anyone?” I’m speaking from the POV of the Astrodome officials. “Gee, they’ve destroyed the Superdome in New Orleans…why the hell should be \*forced \* to take that crowd in here and risk ruining _our_ facility? Screw the fact that they’ve been through hell, screw the fact that they’re starving and dying of thirst, screw being PC about it. We’re searching them for weapons.” > > Obviously, it was a good call. Ah, you’re making me vomit in my mouth. I’ll willing to bet it is SOP to do a weapon search upon entry into any shelter, let alone one housing thousands of people indefinitely. It would have been foolhardy to not do a weapons search even if there hadn’t been any violence and Christ Himself had been in the crowd. It’s what you do when you’re dealing with the public under vunerable circumstances. And how is it possible for 20,000 people, over the span of multiple days, with little security, to NOT trash a facility? There isn’t a population you could have put into the Superdome, under those same conditions (no food, no water, no power) that would have faired better. I’m certain of it! Thank goodness the mayor of Houston was able to see the humanity of the hurricane victims. Can’t say the same for you. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/51 "2005-09-04T00:02:14Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > And that’s mostly the sort of “weapon” we’re talking about here. Scissors, nailfiles, pocketknives – the sort of stuff you get taken away from you if you try to board a plane with it. > > . They were shooting each other with pocketknives? Impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/52 "2005-09-04T00:03:13Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Do you disagree with this statement? Where am I saying “Don’t help anyone?” I’m speaking from the POV of the Astrodome officials. “Gee, they’ve destroyed the Superdome in New Orleans…why the hell should be \*forced \* to take that crowd in here and risk ruining _our_ facility? Screw the fact that they’ve been through hell, screw the fact that they’re starving and dying of thirst, screw being PC about it. We’re searching them for weapons.” > > Obviously, it was a good call. No I don’t disagree with that statement. But what you have consistently failed to do is PROVE THAT THE MURDEROUS CROWD EXISTS. Not once have you provided any evidence, despite countless invitations to do so. “Screw the fact that the’ve been through hell …” Man, you may be the poorest excuse for a human being I have ever come across, and I’ve met people who would shoot their mother for the price of a pack of smokes. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/53 "2005-09-04T00:03:43Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > One cop said. 600 weapons. You got nothing. > ? Where’s your source? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/54 "2005-09-04T00:05:58Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > “Screw the fact that the’ve been through hell …” Man, you may be the poorest excuse for a human being I have ever come across, and I’ve met people who would shoot their mother for the price of a pack of smokes. Would _you_ have searched this poor, suffering crowd for weapons, of all things? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/55 "2005-09-04T00:06:59Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Where’s your source? Your cite is my source. You know, the one you pointed out to me above? \*\*_One police officer said \*\* security guards have seized more than 600 weapons while patting down people entering the stadium. Still, the place has air conditioning, and plenty of food and water for everybody_. It might be time for your nap. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/56 "2005-09-04T00:07:54Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Your cite is my source. You know, the one you pointed out to me above? > > \*\*_One police officer said \*\* security guards have seized more than 600 weapons while patting down people entering the stadium. Still, the place has air conditioning, and plenty of food and water for everybody_. > > It might be time for your nap. You have proof the cop is lying? (This thread is really backfiring on you, isn’t it? I’m actually starting to feel sorry for you!) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/57 "2005-09-04T00:08:30Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Would _you_ have searched this poor, suffering crowd for weapons, of all things? If so, why? Sure. Would I have used that as an excuse to delay evacuation, as you have done? Hell no. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/58 "2005-09-04T00:11:31Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You have proof the cop is lying? (This thread is really backfiring on you, isn’t it? I’m actually starting to feel sorry for you!) It really is time for your nap. Really. (Sigh. I know this won’t work.) Please show me where I said he was lying. Backfiring on me? Look around, sweety. Your ass has been chewed into niblets. Show one poster who agrees with you. Just one. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/59 "2005-09-04T00:14:14Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Sure. Would I have used that as an excuse to delay evacuation, as you have done? Hell no. Why would you have searched them? Wouldn’t you trust them not to bring dangerous weapons into your refugee shelter? After all, there were only 12 murders and 6 rapes at their previous shelter. A bit un-PC of you to have the gall to actually suspect these poor, bedraggled people would be carrying weapons, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/60 "2005-09-04T00:16:34Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > It really is time for your nap. Really. (Sigh. I know this won’t work.) Please show me where I said he was lying. > > Backfiring on me? Look around, sweety. Your ass has been chewed into niblets. Show one poster who agrees with you. Just one. Here’s where we disagree. Facts matter to me, not how many other posters agree with me. If my source, the cop, is telling the truth then they’ve confiscated over 600 weapons from this crowd. You seem to think that “one cop” quoted in a newspaper is not much of a source. Prove he’s lying or shut up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909.md?page=4)