# Rioting, Murderous Mob Transformed By 8 Hour Bus Ride **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909 "2005-09-03T16:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/61 "2005-09-04T00:28:32Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Why would you have searched them? Wouldn’t you trust them not to bring dangerous weapons into your refugee shelter? After all, there were only 12 murders and 6 rapes at their previous shelter. A bit un-PC of you to have the gall to actually suspect these poor, bedraggled people would be carrying weapons, huh? In this thread, and the other, it was conceded that there were weapons. It was not suspicion. It was a known fact. It’s called a straw man. You have attacked a position I have not taken. Gotta go honey. You go out there and rustle up that support and I’ll check you later. On preview. Facts matter to you? Show where I supported child rapers. Show where I said he was lying. Or shut the fuck up about facts. Do you have the attention span of a fruitfly? You wouldn’t know a fact if it jumped up bit you on the ass. One reporter’s account of what one man said to him is nothing to hang your hat on. \*There may well have been \* 600 weapons. **Describe** the weapons. **Show** the weapons. We have no idea what these weapons were. (I notice you have abandoned your claim that 600 -1 in 10- were carrying weapons. Your words can outrun you. Try to remember.) I have \*\*shown \*\* you 20,000 peaceful, grateful citizens. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/62 "2005-09-04T00:34:06Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > They were shooting each other with pocketknives? Impressive. Uh, people in the crowd at the Superdome were shooting? Cite? Now you’re just making things up. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/63 "2005-09-04T00:38:44Z")
That “600 weapons” story appears to come from only a single source. Much more common is verbiage like the following: > [@](#): > > Houston Police Sgt. Nathan McDuell said officers also have confiscated 30 guns, most of which have been voluntarily surrendered. [here](http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050902-0625-katrina-refugees.html) If the dome admitted 20,000, that’s 1 gun per 667 people, which is _much_ lower than the national average of [0.82 guns per capita.](http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm)\* If the 600 weapons confiscated story is true, it seems that a _lot_ of people must have left their guns at home, and opted to carry more lethal weapons such as jacknifes and nail clippers. \*That number is suspect as I got it from the Coalition pour le contrôle des armes. However, gun ownership in the US is much higher than 1 in 667, so the point stands. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/64 "2005-09-04T00:41:46Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > Uh, people in the crowd at the Superdome were shooting? Cite? > > Now you’re just making things up. Sure I am. Here’s your cite. Took me all of 2 seconds to find: \*Chisholm native David Waite, a New Orleans police officer, was a witness this week to the horrific lawlessness after Hurricane Katrina. “Rapes that aren’t being talked about. **Shootings.** Lots of fighting.” And much of it **inside the Louisiana Superdome** , where thousands found shelter after being left homeless by the catastrophic storm and destructive floods that followed, said Kay Waite, David Waite’s mother.\* [http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/12542009.htm](http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/12542009.htm) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/65 "2005-09-04T01:03:28Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Steph Infection > [@](#): > > Stephrash **Contrapuntal** , it is not appropriate to mangle another poster’s username in an insulting way, even when you are pitting him or her. Do not do this again. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/66 "2005-09-04T01:58:53Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Listen, you prick. I’ll try and explain this one more time. I’ve _never_ said or even implied that nobody should be helped. What I _did_ say was that it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the Texas officials took a long, hard look at what happened at the Superdome and, as a result, made damn sure that nothing like it would happen to them. Hence, the weapons search. Hence, the confiscation of over 600 weapons. I agree with you that Texas “dealt with the situation more thoroughly,” and this is why we are not hearing about 12 rapes and 6 murders (or whichever it was) in the Astrodome. If I was in charge of the Astrodome I would’ve done exactly what I’ve been saying in this thread. The Houston officials obviously agree with me, otherwise why even bother to search for weapons in this crowd? Once again you pretender of having an adult intelligence: you said that that “kind” of a group should not be helped under **any** circumstances, taking the weapons away was not the point of the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/67 "2005-09-04T02:06:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again you pretender of having an adult intelligence: you said that that “kind” of a group should not be helped under **any** circumstances, taking the weapons away was not the point of the pit. Once again, you’re wrong. I said nobody should be _forced_ to take in that kind of group. Do you think anyone should be forced to? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/68 "2005-09-04T02:24:08Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Once again, you’re wrong. I said nobody should be _forced_ to take in that kind of group. Do you think anyone should be forced to? Once again, it remains a dead horse of a point, but the context of that thread makes it clear to me that you are playing only semantics here, no one was forced to take this kind of a group, the end someone took them. And unless you can point on anyone on that or this thread said that “someone should be forced” to take refugees once again you set up a straw man, it was you who said that in an attempt to frame the debate, that remains rude and jerkish action on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/69 "2005-09-04T02:24:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, it remains a dead horse of a point, but the context of that thread makes it clear to me that you are playing only semantics here, no one was forced to take this kind of a group, the end someone took them. And unless you can point on anyone on that or this thread said that “someone should be forced” to take refugees once again you set up a straw man, it was you who said that in an attempt to frame the debate, that remains rude and jerkish action on your part. Um, OK. Whatever that means. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/70 "2005-09-04T02:26:59Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Once again, you’re wrong. I said nobody should be _forced_ to take in that kind of group. Do you think anyone should be forced to? Corrected: Once again, it remains a dead horse of a point, but the context of that thread makes it clear to me that you are playing only semantics here, no one was forced to take this kind of a group, in the end someone took them. And unless you can point on anyone on that or this thread said that “someone should be forced” to take refugees, once again you set up a straw man. It was you who said that in an attempt to frame the debate, that remains rude and a jerkish action on your part. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/71 "2005-09-04T02:28:40Z")
shoot, once again: Once again, it remains a dead horse of a point, but the context of that thread makes it clear to me that you are playing only semantics here, no one was forced to take this kind of a group, in the end someone took them. And unless you can point on anyone on that or this thread \*\*that \*\* said that “someone should be forced” to take refugees once again you set up a straw man, it was you who said that in an attempt to frame the debate, that remains rude and a jerkish action on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/72 "2005-09-04T02:30:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > shoot, once again: You mind if I nitpick your grammar? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/73 "2005-09-04T02:37:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > shoot, once again: > > Once again, it remains a dead horse of a point, but the context of that thread **(which thread?)** > makes it clear to me that you are playing only semantics here, **(“playing only semantics?”)** > > no one was forced to take this kind of a group, in the end someone took them. And unless you can point on anyone on that or this thread **(huh?)** > \*\*that \*\* said that “someone should be forced” to take refugees once again you set up a straw man, it was you who said that in an attempt to frame the debate, that remains rude and a jerkish action on your part. Wow. I give up. And this was your _clarification_ ?!?! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/74 "2005-09-04T02:38:46Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You mind if I nitpick your grammar? > 😃 Not at all :), I have to learn to not post when I am in a hurry. The point remains that it was only **Stephe96** that talked about “forcing” that kind of a crowd on others. A straw man indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/75 "2005-09-04T02:43:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not at all :), I have to learn to not post when I am in a hurry. The point remains that it was only **Stephe96** that talked about “forcing” that kind of a crowd on others. A straw man indeed. Clearly. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/76 "2005-09-04T02:48:01Z")
By the way, what purpose does this serve when it comes to survival? From this article: [http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050904/2005-09-04T005727Z\_01\_FOR403212\_RTRIDST\_0\_NEWS-REFUGEES-DC.html](http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050904/2005-09-04T005727Z_01_FOR403212_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-REFUGEES-DC.html) _Women spoke of the terror they felt as gangs of thieves and rapists roamed the streets and temporary shelters night after night, plucking victims – some of them children – at whim and with no fear of police intervention._ Fucking unbelievable. Oh, and yet another conservative is born! _Tilghman said he had been appalled by the violence in New Orleans and was concerned that some of it might spill over into his community with the arrival of more survivors. “I’m totally against guns, but I bought one this week,” he said._ The saying is true: a liberal is just a conservative who hasn’t been mugged yet. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/77 "2005-09-04T02:49:06Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Clearly. :rolleyes: Hey, I only have grammar as an excuse; an excuse for your childish straw man’s and dead horse arguments still needs to be found. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/78 "2005-09-04T03:01:34Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > By the way, what purpose does this serve when it comes to survival? From this article: [MyWay](http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050904/2005-09-04T005727Z_01_FOR403212_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-REFUGEES-DC.html) > > _Women spoke of the terror they felt as gangs of thieves and rapists roamed the streets and temporary shelters night after night, plucking victims – some of them children – at whim and with no fear of police intervention._ > > Fucking unbelievable. Oh, and yet another conservative is born! > > _Tilghman said he had been appalled by the violence in New Orleans and was concerned that some of it might spill over into his community with the arrival of more survivors. “I’m totally against guns, but I bought one this week,” he said._ > > The saying is true: a liberal is just a conservative who hasn’t been mugged yet. When arguments are shit, change the subject… Hey, look! An eagle! But the report actually starts like this: > [@](#): > > Thousands of New Orleans residents streamed north on Saturday, escaping the violence that gripped the city in the days after it was devastated by Hurricane Katrina. The vast majority of refugees are law abaiding citizens and they are **fleeing from the criminals**. It is ok to protect yourself if you think there is a threat, but one has to base that protection on evidence, not ignorance. The refugees are American, and they have rights too. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/79 "2005-09-04T03:06:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > When arguments are shit, change the subject… Hey, look! An eagle! > > But the report actually starts like this: > > The vast majority of refugees are law abaiding citizens and they are **fleeing from the criminals**. It is ok to protect yourself if you think there is a threat, but one has to base that protection on evidence, not ignorance. The refugees are American, and they have rights too. I agree with you 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909/80 "2005-09-04T11:04:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Contrapuntal** , it is not appropriate to mangle another poster’s username in an insulting way, even when you are pitting him or her. Do not do this again. > > [/Moderator Mode] Noted. Won’t happen again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rioting-murderous-mob-transformed-by-8-hour-bus-ride/319909.md?page=5)