# Riots in Ohio **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417 "2005-10-16T00:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/21 "2005-10-16T23:28:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > However, it does not appear to me that the violence was spontaneous. This was not a matter of random kids spilling into the street in anger, but a more organized event sponsored by a few specific groups. That’s what I thought. Riots breaking out over a non-event didn’t ring true from the (limited) coverage I read. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/22 "2005-10-17T00:08:16Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Wouldn’t they be “Paleonazis”? I think they were called ‘Confederates’. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/23 "2005-10-17T00:25:23Z")
There was an organized counterprotest by a local group called [Erase the Hate](http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051008/NEWS16/510080393) but it seems a lot of the violence and destruction was perpetrated by several gangs sporting colors and random hooligans from the neighborhood. Here is the [article about yesterday’s riot](http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051016/NEWS16/51016003) from the Toledo Blade along with related links. The Nazis politicized this [flashpoint](http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051007/NEWS16/510070394) and yesterday’s riots were the result. Unfortunately, I think the Nazis are celebrating a victory today. (Toledo’s not bad, it just gets a bum rap and has the misfortune of being known only vaguely and prejudicially in the collective counsciousness as one of those “novelty cities” eg.- Klinger, Holy Toledo!, Jeep. Toledo is only as boring as you make it and there really is a lot going on for a small to medium city. It is the victim of fleeing industry to some extent and rusting a bit from that but it’s a nice place, overall. There is no traffic, a low cost of living, it’s relatively safe, and it has a lot to offer in the way of family activities and culture, including a world class museum and zoo. We also have a newly revitalized section of downtown due to the Mud Hens and the new Fifth Third Stadium) [COSI](http://www.cositoledo.org) [Toledo Museum of Art](http://www.toledomuseum.org/) [Toledo Zoo](http://www.toledozoo.org/) [Toledo Mudhens](http://www.mudhens.com/) ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/24 "2005-10-17T04:13:57Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The Nazi’s wanted to march to protest black crime. Then riots broke out, resulting in black crime. It’s a sad sad irony. The black fucknuggets managed to make the racist fucknuggets look like they had a valid point. Nice job, dipshits. Well, they kind of _did_ have a valid point, as evidenced by this response. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/25 "2005-10-17T05:17:09Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > Well, they kind of _did_ have a valid point, as evidenced by this response. Not really. The Nazis claimed to be conducting their walk through the neighborhood to protest the fact that the police had not intervened in a feud between two neighbors, one white, one black. The riot occurred when the police were distracted by the Nazis, trying to keep the gangs from attacking _them_. Had the Nazis not been acting out their _agent provocateur_ bravado, the police would not have been clustered over by the park where the Nazis were to assemble and would have been better equipped to address the gangs assembling in other parts of the neighborhood. There had not been lootings, arson, or other violent events, racially charged or otherwise, before the Nazis played their gambit. The “point” of the Nazis was not proved by the event, but, in large part, created by the event. Had black gangs been preying on white citizens or business owners prior to the arrival of the Nazis, then the event _might_ have validated their point. In this case, it did no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/26 "2005-10-17T05:27:29Z")
Why are the ads at the bottom of this thread mentioning clothing? Sorry to hijack, but its interesting to see what comes up at the bottom of certain threads. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/27 "2005-10-17T06:24:43Z")
'Cause Nazi fashion rules? Course Nazis suck Satan’s cock in hell (if it were only so). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/28 "2005-10-17T06:49:43Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The Nazi’s wanted to march to protest black crime. Then riots broke out, resulting in black crime. It’s a sad sad irony. The black fucknuggets managed to make the racist fucknuggets look like they had a valid point. Nice job, dipshits. Ohio? Isn’t that where the black guys are all lazy and the white guys are just as lazy but they’re mad at the black guys for being so lazy? ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/29 "2005-10-17T13:18:07Z")
C’mon… let’s face reality. The Klan, KNOWING full well that they’d be holding a rally in a racial hotbed, decided to go in and ‘protest’ black crime. When the ensuing clash happened, all they had to do was duck back under cover and point. “See? THAT’S exactly what we’re talking about!” is the message that sure to fly from them now. **Nurse Carmen** points out that it’s a sad irony. I think that it’s more correct to say that the Klan’s plan was this all along. Sadly, I think they’ve proven their point. More, I think they’re going to use it as a recruiting tool…and it’ll work. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/30 "2005-10-17T13:56:57Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Toledo has had racial conflicts for quite some time now. Really? I live here (and have for almost 40 years) and can’t remember the last significant thing that could be called a “racial conflict.” Care to post some citations supporting your observation? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/31 "2005-10-17T14:03:23Z")
In fact, the only news outlet I can find calling Toledo a “racial hotbed,” is FOX. And pret’ near all you folks have been telling me over and over that FOX isn’t a credible source. So where you getting this stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/32 "2005-10-17T14:15:44Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Really? I live here (and have for almost 40 years) and can’t remember the last significant thing that could be called a “racial conflict.” Care to post some citations supporting your observation? Wasn’t Toledo the place with that controversial curfew law? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/33 "2005-10-17T14:24:57Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > Why are the ads at the bottom of this thread mentioning clothing? Sorry to hijack, but its interesting to see what comes up at the bottom of certain threads. The one I got says “Having trouble in your marriage? Put the sparks back into your life.” I don’t think I want to know how this connects to this story. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/34 "2005-10-17T15:13:55Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Wasn’t Toledo the place with that controversial curfew law? Yeah. [http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/index.cfm?Article=1167](http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/index.cfm?Article=1167) Lots of municipalities of all sizes have curfew laws. See: [http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/news/publications/curfew.htm](http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/news/publications/curfew.htm) What do curfew laws have to do with race and racial conflicts? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/35 "2005-10-17T15:20:27Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Yeah. [http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/index.cfm?Article=1167](http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/index.cfm?Article=1167) > > Lots of municipalities of all sizes have curfew laws. See: [http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/news/publications/curfew.htm](http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/news/publications/curfew.htm) > > What do curfew laws have to do with race and racial conflicts? Do I recall incorrectly, or were there allegations of this law being used by white cops to harass black citizens multiple times, while they walk to & from work, on the streets where they lived? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/36 "2005-10-17T15:47:48Z")
_I assume_ [this](http://www.racialprofilinganalysis.neu.edu/legislation/litigation.php?state=6) is what you’re talking about; it’s the highest profile racial thing I can remember happening in the last decade or so in the area. But it doesn’t have anything to do with a curfew, it didn’t happen in Toledo, **and** it occured prior to the enactment of the Toledo curfew law anyway. [Ottawa Hills, by the way, is a pricey suburb of Toledo with its own village charter.](http://www.ottawahills.org/) > [@](#): > > Jacobs v. Village of Ottawa Hills > Citation: 111 F.Supp.2d 904 (N.D.Ohio 2000) > > Parties: Suron Jacobs, Village of Ottawa Hills > > Claims / Causes of Action: 42 U.S.C. §1983, related state tort claims > > Remedies Sought: Injunction > > Posture: Granted in part, denied in part motion for summary judgment > > Facts and Holding: On September 28, 1998, plaintiff, a construction worker at the Ottawa Hills High School, was sitting on a fire hydrant in front of the school waiting for his ride. Someone called the police department informing them that there was a strange man waiting in front of the school. After a brief discussion between the plaintiff and an officer, the plaintiff started to walk away and the officer grabbed him. He was then taken in to the police station and charged with obstructing official business and resisting arrest. Charges were filed, then dismissed, and plaintiff brought this suit, claiming that the events culminating in his arrest violated his rights under the 4th amendment to be free from unreasonable seizures. The defendants argue that such seizure began as a lawful investigatory stop, and that their actions thereafter conformed to the Constitution. The court held that the officer did not have reasonable suspicion that crime was or was about to be committed, as required for investigatory stop of arrestee while he was sitting on fire hydrant around noontime, waiting to meet his brother; police did not have qualified immunity from 42 U.S.C. § 1983 action arising from his arrest; equal protection rights of the arrestee were not violated; there were fact issues as to whether officers had assualted arrestee; there were fact issues as to whether arrestee was subjected to false arrest; there were fact issues as to whether officers engaged in malicious prosecution; and the village had not violated arrestee’s equal protection rights. The court dismissed the equal protection claim, but denied summary judgment on state law claims, declining to extend qualified immunity to one officer. Besides all that, the Toledo curfew law affects minors. How could something like that be used to harass persons traveling back and forth to work? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/37 "2005-10-17T16:09:52Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > _I assume_ [this](http://www.racialprofilinganalysis.neu.edu/legislation/litigation.php?state=6) is what you’re talking about; it’s the highest profile racial thing I can remember happening in the last decade or so in the area. But it doesn’t have anything to do with a curfew, it didn’t happen in Toledo, **and** it occured prior to the enactment of the Toledo curfew law anyway. [Ottawa Hills, by the way, is a pricey suburb of Toledo with its own village charter.](http://www.ottawahills.org/) > > Besides all that, the Toledo curfew law affects minors. How could something like that be used to harass persons traveling back and forth to work? Then I’m in error. I must be recalling events in anothe community, and misapplying them to Toldeo. I apologize. :o ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/38 "2005-10-17T16:21:51Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Wasn’t Nazi a verbal abbreviation of the German for Nationalist Socialist? Kind of like a Democrat calling himself a “Dem?” (Not equating Democrats to Nazi’s…although…😉 ) The full name was \*Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei \* (“National Socialist German Worker’s Party”), but “Nazi” came from the first two syllables of “National,” which in German are pronounced like “natsi.” So, technically speaking, “Nazi” is merely a contraction of the single word “national,” not an abbreviation of the two-word phrase “National Socialist.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/39 "2005-10-17T16:37:23Z")
AH! I’d confused it with Cincinnati. [http://www.wndu.com/news/042001/news\_7190.php](http://www.wndu.com/news/042001/news_7190.php) ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417/40 "2005-10-17T16:51:21Z")
**GrizzRich** > [@](#): > > Sadly, I think they’ve proven their point. Their point is that ethnic minorities are inferior to Whites. They have proven nothing. Unless, perhaps, you think like they do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/riots-in-ohio/326417.md?page=3)