# RIP Apollo 8 Astronaut William Anders
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 8, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619 "2024-06-08T01:08:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/1 "2024-06-08T01:08:50Z")
The former astronaut and General Dynamics CEO, who took the iconic Earthrise photo from lunar orbit, has died in a small plane crash on San Juan Island in Puget Sound.
> **[Former NASA astronaut Bill Anders was flying plane that crashed in San Juan...](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/officials-respond-reported-plane-crash-near-orcas-island/281-c3eab84d-d797-4ae9-b5a5-5907ed07e93d)**
>
> Coast Guard officials say they responded to an area between Orcas and Jones Islands.
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### Author:  [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/2 "2024-06-08T01:50:18Z")
I saw the headline about 20 minutes ago which said Anders died at the age of 90. But only now am I seeing it was in a plane crash!
Anders was long active in warbirds. I wonder if he was flying a Mustang, as he often did. A friend of mine used to fly formation with him.
In any case, Jim Lovell is now the lone surviving member of Apollo 8. Anders had a hell of an interesting life, but who could have expected him to die in a plane at that age?
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/3 "2024-06-08T01:52:13Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#):
>
> I wonder if he was flying a Mustang, as he often did.
It was apparently a Beechcraft T-34.
> **[Beechcraft T-34 Mentor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor)**
>
> The Beechcraft T-34 Mentor is an American propeller-driven, single-engined, military trainer aircraft derived from the Beechcraft Model 35 Bonanza. The earlier versions of the T-34, dating from around the late 1940s to the 1950s, were piston-engined. These were eventually succeeded by the upgraded T-34C Turbo-Mentor, powered by a turboprop engine. The T-34 remains in service more than seven decades after it was first designed.
> The T-34 was the brainchild of Walter Beech, who developed it as th...
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### Author:  [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/4 "2024-06-08T02:23:59Z")
I used to occasionally run into him at events where either he or his son Greg flew in with their P-51 or their A-1 Skyraider. This is a tough one, but making it to 90 still flying warbirds isn’t too shabby.
At least one eyewitness stated that Bill was trying to do a loop but didn’t have enough altitude to recover. The crash video posted sure suggests that could be true.
> **[Former NASA astronaut Bill Anders was flying plane that crashed in San Juan...](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/officials-respond-reported-plane-crash-near-orcas-island/281-c3eab84d-d797-4ae9-b5a5-5907ed07e93d)**
>
> Coast Guard officials say they responded to an area between Orcas and Jones Islands.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/5 "2024-06-08T02:25:50Z")
witnesses said he was doing a loop and was too low to the water. The plane hit and cartwheeled.
Probably the best way anyone can go. Doing something you love at 90 and then lights out.
He was the astronaut that took the big blue marble picture.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/6 "2024-06-08T02:26:09Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#):
>
> Anders had a hell of an interesting life, but who could have expected him to die in a plane at that age?
On the other hand, it can’t help but feel kind of fitting that the old test pilot goes down with his boots on.
Another one of the moon men who goes off into the infinite. Goodbye sir and thank you for that most precious Christmas ornament.
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### Author:  [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/7 "2024-06-08T02:29:29Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> On the other hand, it can’t help but feel kind of fitting that the old test pilot goes down with his boots on.
IIRC, Anders was not a test pilot - he was “only” a regular Air Force fighter jock. He was brought into NASA based on his work with nuclear technology. Andrew Chaikin’s wonderful book about the Apollo program describes Chuck Yeager having a hissy fit when Anders was accepted as an astronaut without having been through his test pilot school. He even tried to get it rescinded, the prick.
But test pilot or not, he was obviously highly skilled. It’s great that he was still flying at 90.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/8 "2024-06-08T02:47:20Z")
Looked it up, at the closing of the Apollo 8 Moon orbit Xmas Eve broadcast, it was Anders that did the start (verses 1-4) of the reading of Genesis.
Had only one flight, and he made it count.
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### Author:  [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/9 "2024-06-08T02:55:26Z")
Here’s a gift link to a recent New York Times article _The 25 Photos That Defined the Moden Age_. Warning: some are quite disturbing. But at #7 is Earthrise by Mr. Anders, a welcome and appreciated glimmer of hope for our planet. Thank you Bill.
> **[The 25 Photos That Defined the Modern Age](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/03/t-magazine/photography-robert-frank-gordon-parks.html?unlocked_article_code=1.yE0.3agl.9vNoALbOpyst)**
>
> A group of experts met to discuss the images that have best captured — and changed — the world since 1955.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/10 "2024-06-08T14:14:59Z")
I was so busy yesterday, that this is the first I heard of it.
> [@Pork\_Rind](#):
>
> At least one eyewitness stated that Bill was trying to do a loop but didn’t have enough altitude to recover. The crash video posted sure suggests that could be true.
The witness said it looked like he did a ‘barrel roll’, and then ‘kind of a loop’. I wonder if he was attempting a [Split S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_S)?
The video reminded me of the time I was at a airshow at MCAS El Toro, and an F/A-18 pilot attempted a loop. He pulled too hard and stalled at the top. Didn’t have enough room to recover. (He survived with serious injuries. I don’t recall if he returned to flying.)
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### Author:  [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/11 "2024-06-08T18:10:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Probably the best way anyone can go. Doing something you love at 90 and then lights out.
Yeah, agreed, best “died as he lived” case since John Entwhistle (though he only made it to 57).
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/12 "2024-06-08T18:28:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> witnesses said he was doing a loop and was too low to the water. The plane hit and cartwheeled.
Wouldn’t you think that such an experienced pilot would have known he wasn’t going to make the loop at such a low altitude? Its something no one wants to mention, but this looks like he took himself out.
Myself, when I’m ninety I’m planning on being killed by a jealous boyfriend of a 30 something MILF.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/13 "2024-06-08T20:54:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Probably the best way anyone can go. Doing something you love at 90 and then lights out.
That’s what I was going to say; there’s not really a more fitting way to go out for a pilot and former astronaut than in trying to do something cool in an aircraft and pushing the limits while doing so.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/14 "2024-06-08T22:32:49Z")
More likely than deliberate aerobatics was some kind of visual illusion or physical incapacitation.Non-pilot witnesses are remarkably bad at describing an airplane’s 3-D path through space, much less imputing the intent of the pilot.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/15 "2024-06-09T00:38:28Z")
How many G’s are generated in a loop? 90 years of age might not appreciate what a 30 year old astronaut could take.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2024, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/16 "2024-06-09T00:45:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> witnesses said he was doing a loop and was too low to the water. The plane hit and cartwheeled.
The video I saw looked more like the plane was headed straight down and he tried to pull out at the last minute.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Em57Xha_Y)
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### Author:  [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/17 "2024-06-09T00:47:23Z")
Unfortunately, as far as is known right now, we only have the video of the last half (or so) of what he was doing. I fully agree that most eyewitness accounts are terrible (particularly noting the guy that with enormous confidence said Kobe’s helicopter was hovering over him while the ADSB record showed it passed overhead at about 90kts). Don’t know if we’ll get enough other accounts to verify the loop attempt or discount it.
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### Author:  [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2024, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/18 "2024-06-09T03:56:25Z")
That was my impression as well: to my (untrained) eye, there wasn’t much of an arc to the descent until the last. I have to wonder if he had some kind of transient incident (à la @LSLGuy and @Magiver), but I wouldn’t be surprised if we never know.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/19 "2024-06-09T11:04:23Z")
Now having watched @Kent_Clark’s video cite.
Not a loop, or even the last half of one. The airspeed when the video begins is inappropriately fast for having just completed a half loop. It’s impossible in a low-powered airplane like a T-34 to be very much above stall speed at the top of a loop. We can see he’s well above that speed. The flightaware tracking also doesn’t support that; there’s no change of direction that would represent the first half of the maneuver.
Had he started a deliberate split-S (or at least a _properly executed_ deliberate split-S) , he’d also have been slowed, not running at cruise speed or more. You need to start that maneuver slow or else you’ll overspeed during the last half from vertical straight down back to level going the other way.
Hard to say what happened and more importantly, why.
[Rant]
It is sooo vexing when folks with useful forensic video cut off a crucial few seconds of leadup to post only the highlights. I get that the public wants action, but we get 7 seconds of video where having gotten 15 or even 10 instead would have been far more informative. It seems that vid was taken by a static cam, perhaps a security cam. So many seconds of earlier vid almost certainly exists; it just isn’t made available to us. Bastards.
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-apollo-8-astronaut-william-anders/1002619/20 "2024-06-10T01:10:59Z")
And I was so busy, that this is the first I heard of this.
They read from Genesis 1 (KJV) while orbiting the moon on Christmas Eve 1968. It was during their 9th orbit, of 10 orbits.
Bill Anders read vv 1-4:
> _“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth._
>
> _“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters._
>
> _“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light._
>
> _“And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”_
Jim Lovell read vv 5-8:
> _“And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day._
>
> _“And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters._
>
> _“And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so._
>
> _“And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.”_
Frank Borman read vv 9-10:
> _“And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so._
>
> _“And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.”_
**Rest in peace, Bill Anders.**
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