# Rip-crt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097 "2008-02-03T16:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/21 "2008-02-13T22:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Hardcore PC gamers are a dying breed and the ones that prefer CRTs over LCDs to the point of refusing to even purchase an LCD is a practically invisible number. The word “gamer” nowadays refers to console gamers, and we moved on to LCD TVs as our display of choice years ago. [/QUOTE] As for the “practically invisible” number: cite? I’m not even a hardcore gamer and the fixed resolution problem alone has deterred me from switching over. Surely I’m not alone. Regarding your second assertion, the magazine “PC Gamer” begs to differ. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/22 "2008-02-14T00:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] As for the “practically invisible” number: cite? I’m not even a hardcore gamer and the fixed resolution problem alone has deterred me from switching over. Surely I’m not alone. [/QUOTE] No, but you’re practically alone. Ask any major computer retailer how many CRTs they sell a month for every LCD. I’m guessing it’s not even close. [QUOTE=begbert2] Regarding your second assertion, the magazine “PC Gamer” begs to differ. [/QUOTE] Come on, do I really have to dig up the numbers that show console games outselling PC games almost 20:1? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/23 "2008-02-14T00:48:00Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] No, but you’re practically alone. Ask any major computer retailer how many CRTs they sell a month for every LCD. I’m guessing it’s not even close. [/QUOTE] Which means nothing, since nobody needs to go to a major computer retail to get a CRT. They already _have_ a CRT. Duh! [QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Come on, do I really have to dig up the numbers that show console games outselling PC games almost 20:1? [/QUOTE] Given that your assertion that “gamer” no longer _applies_ to PC users, I’d say that the “1” in that 20:1 of yours proves _my_ point. The term applies to _both_ PC and console users, _both_ of whom still buy and play games - sometimes on their newly-bought LCD TVs and monitors, and sometimes on their _not_ newly-bought CRT TVs and monitors. **All** the groups still exist. (Even CRT console gamers, I’d bet!) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/24 "2008-02-14T03:26:05Z")
Are consoles really that dominant in terms of sales? That’s unfortunate - console gaming is inferior to PC gaming in just about every way. So if developers abandon PC gaming, gaming as a whole will suffer. On the other hand, as consoles become more PC-like, it’s probably easier to develop for both. I’m in the market for a new monitor - my old CRT is dimming from age and I managed to crack the glass next week. I’m finding myself annoyed that LCDs seem to have almost completely replaced CRTs. I see them as competing technologies that both have advantages and disadvantages, and if LCDs drive CRTs out of the market it hurts consumer choice. I used a friend’s LCD for a few days and had mixed feelings. The native resolution issue was annoying - I tend to use a lower resolution than most people do because I prefer bigger text for easy readability at the cost of more screen space - but LCDs aren’t very flexible in this regard (although there was some DPI setting in my video card drivers that made everything bigger - does anyone know how that works, exactly?). But even though I was using a 2 ms response time monitor, you could tell something was up with the motion. It felt like I was getting 25-30 FPS even if I was getting 150 because it all blurred together. I’m not sure which way I’m going to go, but it’s irritating that the choice is gradually dying off. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/25 "2008-02-14T15:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Are consoles really that dominant in terms of sales? That’s unfortunate - console gaming is inferior to PC gaming in just about every way. So if developers abandon PC gaming, gaming as a whole will suffer. On the other hand, as consoles become more PC-like, it’s probably easier to develop for both. [/QUOTE] I see, it’s going to be one of _those_ conversations. Well then I’m done, because I don’t feel there’s any point in discussing anything with people who think “PC gaming” and “console gaming” are somehow different forms of video games and that one is inherently better than the other. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/26 "2008-02-14T19:12:16Z")
My eyes! The toggles do nothing! The IT department is clearing out all the CRTs at my office as we speak(or as I type, whatever). They just now switched out my 20" CRT to a 17" liquid crap display. This thing is going to drive me both blind and mad by days end. I feel like this is all some cruel experiment, as someone is getting their kicks watching me squint and squirm. My eyes can’t naturally, easily focus on word; I really have to strain them to be able to read on this damned thing. Then when I do get up and walk away from the monitor I feel like I have had a good 200 flashbulbs cameras photographing me starting at the sun for an hour or week or two. I’ve been messing with the monitor’s controls for about the past half hour and nothing I do seems to be even part way right. I can’t have my desktop resolution at anything other than 1280x1024 without it looking like complete shite. So LCD folks, any recommendations on finding the proper settings, do you get use to it, or are me and Stewie’s old pal Squiggly Line about to be come quite familliar with each other? Please pardon any errors in my post, as I can’t-fucking-see! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/27 "2008-02-14T19:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=tds1273] My eyes! The toggles do nothing! The IT department is clearing out all the CRTs at my office as we speak(or as I type, whatever). They just now switched out my 20" CRT to a 17" liquid crap display. This thing is going to drive me both blind and mad by days end. I feel like this is all some cruel experiment, as someone is getting their kicks watching me squint and squirm. My eyes can’t naturally, easily focus on word; I really have to strain them to be able to read on this damned thing. Then when I do get up and walk away from the monitor I feel like I have had a good 200 flashbulbs cameras photographing me starting at the sun for an hour or week or two. I’ve been messing with the monitor’s controls for about the past half hour and nothing I do seems to be even part way right. I can’t have my desktop resolution at anything other than 1280x1024 without it looking like complete shite. So LCD folks, any recommendations on finding the proper settings, do you get use to it, or are me and Stewie’s old pal Squiggly Line about to be come quite familliar with each other? Please pardon any errors in my post, as I can’t-fucking-see! [/QUOTE] Is brightness the problem? Have you tried dimming it? Here at work I’ve reduced my LCDs’ brightness to 0 and the contrast to 50 (from 127/255), which reduces the eyestrain considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/28 "2008-02-14T19:31:14Z")
There are a lot of people in the U.S. and around the world that have to deal with something called a budget. They can afford a CRT. They cannot afford an LCD. As long as an LCD costs three times what a CRT costs, CRTs won’t go away. Quality and features are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/29 "2008-02-14T19:31:25Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I see, it’s going to be one of _those_ conversations. Well then I’m done, because I don’t feel there’s any point in discussing anything with people who think “PC gaming” and “console gaming” are somehow different forms of video games and that one is inherently better than the other. [/QUOTE] You’re right, my hijack didn’t add anything to the thread - sorry. I was surprised to see that number - I wonder how much the ease of PC game pirating vs console pirating affects sales numbers. To be fair, though, you did call PC gaming dying and that “gamer” didn’t even mean PC gamers anymore - and then got indignant about how anyone could think the two types of gaming were different. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/30 "2008-02-14T19:36:36Z")
What are people referring to when they talk about an LCD monitor’s native resolution? I have a laptop and an LCD monitor for my desktop, and neither has exhibited any problems when I have tried to change resolutions on them. Both are able to show resolutions from 640_480 on up to 1280_whatever. (The “whatever” differs for the two monitors.) All resolutions are perfectly comfortable to work with in both monitors. Do I have extra specially neato monitors or something? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/31 "2008-02-14T19:40:26Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] As long as an LCD costs three times what a CRT costs, CRTs won’t go away. Quality and features are irrelevant. [/QUOTE] That’s incorrect. An LCD monitor today goes for roughly what a CRT went for a few years ago. Give or take a few dollars. [QUOTE=SenorBeef] You’re right, my hijack didn’t add anything to the thread - sorry. I was surprised to see that number - I wonder how much the ease of PC game pirating vs console pirating affects sales numbers. To be fair, though, you did call PC gaming dying and that “gamer” didn’t even mean PC gamers anymore - and then got indignant about how anyone could think the two types of gaming were different. [/QUOTE] I guess I was a little unclear. I meant, to the majority of the population if you say gamer, they will think of the consoles first. And I really doubt piracy has much of anything to do with the differences in sales and everything to do with the huge number of games that come out for consoles that don’t come out on PCs and the ease of use of playing games on a console as opposed to playing on a PC. I also never said PC gaming was dying and I’m unsure where you even got that. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/32 "2008-02-14T19:40:35Z")
Turning the brightness down helps a bit, but I noticed the contrast has to be down just as much or else the letters get about a pixel wide white outline that really sucks. A lot of the problem has to do with the size of the letters, they are almost too fine; ittalics are a real bugger. Oh, and why the hell does the text size option in the view tab(ctrl+scroll) of IE(my only option) seem to work for _maybe_ a few words on a page? If you change the text size it should change all the text, otherwise what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/33 "2008-02-14T19:47:55Z")
[QUOTE=tds1273] Turning the brightness down helps a bit, but I noticed the contrast has to be down just as much or else the letters get about a pixel wide white outline that really sucks. A lot of the problem has to do with the size of the letters, they are almost too fine; ittalics are a real bugger. [/QUOTE] Did you try the following: Right click on the desktop Click on “properties” click on the “appearance” tab click on “effects” try out different selections under the text “use the following method to smooth fonts” (or wording to that effect) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/34 "2008-02-14T19:50:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] What are people referring to when they talk about an LCD monitor’s native resolution? I have a laptop and an LCD monitor for my desktop, and neither has exhibited any problems when I have tried to change resolutions on them. Both are able to show resolutions from 640_480 on up to 1280_whatever. (The “whatever” differs for the two monitors.) All resolutions are perfectly comfortable to work with in both monitors. Do I have extra specially neato monitors or something? -FrL- [/QUOTE] You must have; most LCD montors (as in, all of them that _I_ know of) have a fixed number of pixels across; when you try to show a screen resolution that does not divide that number evenly, you get artifacts. That is, the image’s ‘native’ pixels will be spread across the LCD’s pixels in an uneven manner. The best way to see this is to get an image where every alternating pixel is black or white, as in: X\_X\_X\_X\_X\_X\_ _X\_X\_X\_X\_X\_X X\_X\_X\_X\_X\_X_ \_X\_X\_X\_X\_X\_X and try to look at it at various resolutions. On some resolutions it will look something like this: X\_XX\_X\_X\_\_X\_X\_ X\_XX\_X\_X\_\_X\_X\_ _X\_\_X\_X\_XX\_X\_X X\_XX\_X\_X\_\_X\_X_ X\_XX\_X\_X\_\_X\_X\_ \_X\_\_X\_X\_XX\_X\_X This is not a good thing. It’s less visible the higher a native resolution your monitor has, but it still can be annoying and troublesome. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/35 "2008-02-14T20:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Did you try the following: Right click on the desktop Click on “properties” click on the “appearance” tab click on “effects” try out different selections under the text “use the following method to smooth fonts” (or wording to that effect) -FrL- [/QUOTE] Ooh, dang that does help; especially here on the SDMB, which really, isn’t that what truely matters? Thanks **Frylock**! I guess that’s why you’re on top, rockin’ like a clock, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/36 "2008-02-14T20:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Which means nothing, since nobody needs to go to a major computer retail to get a CRT. They already _have_ a CRT. Duh!\ [/QUOTE] :dubious: If they’re not going to buy \*either \*monitor, they’re not going to be a demographic that’s marketed to. Once nobody’s buying CRTs because everybody already has one, they’re going to stop being mass produced, and their cost is going to go up, and even less people are going to buy them. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/37 "2008-02-14T21:08:28Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] There are a lot of people in the U.S. and around the world that have to deal with something called a budget. They can afford a CRT. They cannot afford an LCD. As long as an LCD costs three times what a CRT costs, CRTs won’t go away. Quality and features are irrelevant. [/QUOTE] LCDs are pretty cheap these days. I just purchased a great 24 inch 1920 by 1200 LCD monitor for $450. About 7 years earlier a 19 inch CRT monitor was around $600. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/38 "2008-02-14T21:17:15Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] :dubious: If they’re not going to buy \*either \*monitor, they’re not going to be a demographic that’s marketed to. Once nobody’s buying CRTs because everybody already has one, they’re going to stop being mass produced, and their cost is going to go up, and even less people are going to buy them. [/QUOTE] I’m fairly confident that most of the current purchaces of flatpanel monitors are by persons who already had an CRT, and are “upgrading”. These are the demographic that most _definitely_ are not out buying CRTs, since they only reason they’re buying at all is that they percieve an advantage to LCDs and want to take advantage of that. Presumably this demographic will eventually disappear, though, and some percentage of the disparity between CRT and LCD sales will disappear with them. This is not to say that LCDs are not eating into CRT sales; they assuredly are. I just don’t think that the current rates so sales is an accurate reflection of the preference of users, due to the temporary market of people switching over which provides a boost to LCD sales that has no comparable boost to CRT sales, since CRT-preferring users need only upgrade when their existing monitors break or wear out (or are outclassed by a larger-sized CRT). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/39 "2008-02-14T21:41:02Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] There are a lot of people in the U.S. and around the world that have to deal with something called a budget. They can afford a CRT. They cannot afford an LCD. As long as an LCD costs three times what a CRT costs, CRTs won’t go away. Quality and features are irrelevant. [/QUOTE] Do those people live somewhere where they get free electricity? The total cost of ownership of an LCD is already below a CRT after a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097/40 "2008-02-14T22:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] Do those people live somewhere where they get free electricity? The total cost of ownership of an LCD is already below a CRT after a year or two. [/QUOTE] Assuming 14 cent a KWH power (pretty high), the monitor on 10 hours a day and 65 Watt power savings. You save $33 a year. I think it will take a lot longer than a year or two to pay this back. The 65 Watts comes from here. > **[LCD vs CRT - Pros and Cons (A Quick Overview) - Bootstrike.Com](http://bootstrike.com/Articles/LCDvsCRT/)** > > The differences between LCDs and CRTs. In summary, CRTs have the upperhand in display quality, while LCDs have the edge in flatness, slimness, health and energy savings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-crt/436097.md?page=3)