# RIP Francis Tresham (game designer) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212 "2019-10-24T02:38:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/1 "2019-10-24T02:38:35Z")
Already posed in the death pool, but I think he deserves a thread. He created the Civilization board game, ([Civilization | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/71/civilization)) which begat Advanced Civilization ([Advanced Civilization | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/177/advanced-civilization)), which begat Mega Civilization ([Mega Civilization | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/184424/mega-civilization)) He created 1829 ([1829 | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1823/1829)) which begat 1830 ([1830: Railways & Robber Barons | Board Game | BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/421/1830-railways-robber-barons)), which begat a who subgenre of train board games (called 18xx) Either game by itself would be notable, but to create two landmark games makes him a true pioneer. Brian (he was not directly involved with the Civ sequels, but did design 1830 and several other 18xx games) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/2 "2019-10-24T05:31:55Z")
[And Aram begat Aminadab…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ur2jyfcd8Y) 🙂 (I’m sorry, I have nothing of value to add except that can’t not think of this bit anytime I hear the word “begat”) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/3 "2019-10-25T01:41:09Z")
wasn’t the civ pc game originally based on the civ boardgames or was just enough that meier&co had to pay licensing fees to Avalon hill? ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/4 "2019-10-25T08:53:18Z")
There was some influence, but mostly to cover their butts legally > **[Civilization (video game)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_(video_game))** > > Sid Meier's Civilization is a 1991 turn-based strategy 4X video game developed and published by MicroProse. The game was originally developed for MS-DOS running on a PC, and it has undergone numerous revisions for various platforms. The player is tasked with leading an entire human civilization over the course of several millennia by controlling various areas such as urban development, exploration, government, trade, research, and military. The player can control individual units and advance th... > [@wikipedia](#): > > The name Civilization came late in the development process.[6] MicroProse recognized at this point the 1980 Civilization board game may conflict with their video game, as it shared a similar theme including the technology tree. Meier had noted the board game’s influence but considered it not as great as Empire or SimCity,[9] while others have noted significant differences that made the video game far different from the board game such as the non-linearity introduced by Meier’s technology tree.[6] To avoid any potential legal issues, MicroProse negotiated a license to use the Civilization name from Avalon Hill.[6] There was a computer version of Advanced Civ that closely followed the board game and there still exists an online version of the game [(rol) Civ :: (rol) Civilization Log in](http://civ.rol-play.com/ahciv/login.php?horde_logout_token=PG0UNzAcK3bH_ZvutYhDZWvwMzc&app=horde) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/5 "2019-10-25T09:32:39Z")
Having played both extensively, I’d opine the civ pc game has nothing in common with the boardgame besides the general theme of “pilot the demo/mil/tech advancement of a civilization competing against others” ; and if you squint other general game design ideas like “tech goes faster the more people you have” or “population increases faster when it’s spread out” ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-francis-tresham-game-designer/842212/6 "2019-10-25T11:55:36Z")
Note that Mega Civilization (which plays up to 18 and cost north of $200), decided to break into two games (East and West) to make it more affordable/approachable. (each plays 5-9) Just about the time they ere going to release the West they got into a legal problem with the trademark. They eventually renamed the game Western Empires (and will introduce Eastern Empires later). Even though Mega Civ was released I think it is now named Mega Empires. [https://westernempires.com/faq/](https://westernempires.com/faq/) Brian