# RIP Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788 "2009-08-26T17:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/21 "2009-08-26T17:47:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Ted didn’t restrain her inside the car, he just avoided getting the authorities involved until he sobered up, and she wound up drowning as a result of this choice. Right. Because getting a ride straight to the police station to notify them and the return trip back is exactly how long the average person can hold their breathe. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/22 "2009-08-26T17:48:14Z")
OK, **mswas** , you asked for my opinion on this in the other thread, and here it is. First, let me repeat [what i’ve said before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4550311&highlight=kennedy#post4550311) about the Chappaquiddick incident: > [@I Pit Michael Skakel](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-michael-skakel/229070/42): > > I didn’t enter this thread intending to rally to the defence of Ted Kennedy. Despite the fact that i quite like his politics, i do believe that his behaviour on that night in Chappaquiddick was, as best, strange and irresponsible, and at worst illegal and reprehensible. I don’t really know enough about what went on to reach a definite conclusion. I just think it’s rather silly and unproductive to launch into rampant speculation along the lines of “he _must_ have been drunk; how else can we explain his actions,” or “it must be a cover-up, because he’s a Kennedy.” That’s pretty much what i still believe. But, more than that, i was reacting to your disingenuous opening to your earlier thread, in which you said: > [@mswas](#): > > I don’t hate Ted Kennedy or think that this defines him… But for you, it clearly does pretty much define him, considering that’s about all you have to say about him on the occasion of his death. That’s your right, of course, but it would be more honest not to preface your comments with disingenuous crap like that. Saying you don’t hate someone, and then calling him a murderer, doesn’t really add up most of the time. Also, in the recent ATMB thread, you said: > [@Why was MSWAS warned?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-mswas-warned/507781/19): > > So being sad about Mary Jo Kopechne is a delusion now? And people say that _I_ am condescending. > > It’s interesting and very telling to me that caring about Mary Jo Kopechne is ‘stupid’. > > The woman is about to be completely forgotten by history. That’s not sad to you? To be quite honest, i literally do not believe that you care about Mary Jo Kopechne, nor that you are actually sad about her. The idea that you are sad about the death, over 40 years ago, of a woman you never met is completely preposterous, and leads me to believe that you’re simply posturing. As for the idea that she’s about to be “forgotten by history,” please spare us the melodrama. The Chappaquiddick incident, all by itself, probably prevented Ted Kennedy from becoming president. Even leaving that aside, it’s become a part of our cultural history. And as long as obsessives like you continue your histrionics over it, that’s unlikely to change. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/23 "2009-08-26T17:49:46Z")
**mswas** , are you aware that cross-posting is frowned on around here? I would think that’s especially true of a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529543) that was closed with an Official Warning. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/24 "2009-08-26T17:49:49Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am baffled as to how you think this is even pertinent. Yeah - because he had kids, right? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/25 "2009-08-26T17:50:45Z")
I hesitate to answer, as you seem to be looking for a debate rather than taking a poll… ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/26 "2009-08-26T17:51:57Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > People remember history. Children are people. Not everything in this life is about celebrity. Even people who are not celebrities have lives of meaning and value. And how many of the other tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people that have died in tragic circumstances do you think about daily? The only reason anyone except those close to her remember Kopechne is that her accident involved someone famous. Her fate now is no different than any of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/27 "2009-08-26T17:52:54Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No I don’t. I pretty much think Reagan was a moron. Fine, one thing. Congratulations. > [@mswas](#): > > So Mary Jo Kopechne’s life is immaterial as long as you get to bash conservatives or in lieu of a conservative me? You didn’t start this thread to mourn her and you fucking well know it. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/28 "2009-08-26T17:53:16Z")
Can we also mourn the death of Michael Dutton Douglas in this thread? Because he’s been dead 6 years longer than Kopechne, and for some reason people don’t consistently bring his name up when discussing people those in the political sphere have killed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/29 "2009-08-26T17:53:26Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And how many of the other tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people that have died in tragic circumstances do you think about daily? The only reason anyone except those close to her remember Kopechne is that her accident involved someone famous. Her fate now is no different than any of those people. Tragic death is tragic death, there is nothing hypocritical about thinking about one tragic death at a particular given moment, especially if there is a valid context. So you are absolutely correct, all of the tragic deaths are sad. We often have threads on this forum talking about how tragic deaths make us sad. > [@Munch](#): > > Can we also mourn the death of Michael Dutton Douglas in this thread? Because he’s been dead 6 years longer than Kopechne, and for some reason people don’t consistently bring his name up when discussing people those in the political sphere have killed. No, but you can start a thread if you like. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/30 "2009-08-26T17:54:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am baffled as to how you think this is even pertinent. Well Officer Tippit is merely a footnote to JFK’s assasination. His life was also cut short in a tragic event that was overshadowed by the involvement of a Kennedy. Just wanted to know if there was a pattern here Mary Jo’s parents survived her and I’m sure kept her memory alive. We don’t know if she would have had any children. If she had died at age 70 without ever having children, would that also make you sad? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/31 "2009-08-26T17:54:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Fine, one thing. Congratulations. > You didn’t start this thread to mourn her and you fucking well know it. I do? Is the world really that binary to you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/32 "2009-08-26T17:55:59Z")
Are you sad about all the other people who died young and don’t even get to be in a dead Senator’s byline? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/33 "2009-08-26T17:56:12Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Right. Because getting a ride straight to the police station to notify them and the return trip back is exactly how long the average person can hold their breathe. You get an air bubble trapped in the car, you can survive for a while. At any rate, Kennedy didn’t know that, and he admitted that he went back to the accident scene with his friends and dove in to try and get her out. He thought he could get her out, he just didn’t want the cops to try, I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/34 "2009-08-26T17:56:15Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Well Officer Tippit is merely a footnote to JFK’s assasination. His life was also cut short in a tragic event that was overshadowed by the involvement of a Kennedy. Just wanted to know if there was a pattern here Fair enough, that makes sense. Yes, it’s sad that his death was overshadowed by a Kennedy. > [@](#): > > Mary Jo’s parents survived her and I’m sure kept her memory alive. Actually that made me sad when I found out she was an only child. All their hopes and dreams their pride at her career dashed, their biological legacy severed. > [@](#): > > We don’t know if she would have had any children. If she had died at age 70 without ever having children, would that also make you sad? No, we don’t. It would make me sad if I heard about it yes. Unless of course that’s really what she wanted, though the severing of biological legacies makes me sad generally. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/35 "2009-08-26T17:56:35Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Just out of curiosity MWAS, do your thoughts turn to J. D. Tippit every November 22? > > [J. D. Tippit - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Tippit) Not too many people praise Lee Harvey Oswald, however. (Edit: Dammit, too slow to post, I see it’s been explained.) I think [Michael Dutton Douglas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas) (Laura (Welch) Bush ran a stop sign in her teenage years and hit another car, killing the driver who just happened to be an ex-boyfriend) might be a closer comparison, except that due to the circumstances other people were involved, help arrived, etc. We don’t have (that I can think of) anyone else similarly famous who left the scene of an accident and didn’t report it, but plenty of non-famous people panic and do just that. Death occurs really quickly and easily when cars go into the water, and it takes a very long time (in breath-holding terms) or a very cool head to escape alive - coincidentally I just rewatched the Mythbusters episode on this, where they tested escaping a car that goes into water. I don’t know what caused him to go into the water. I don’t blame him at all for not rescuing her, knowing what it looks like when you try to escape a car like that. I can’t conceive not reporting it, but considering how many people run from accidents where they’ve done a fenderbender/hurt someone/killed someone, even if it wasn’t actually their fault… I just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/36 "2009-08-26T17:57:02Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I do? Is the world really that binary to you? In this case, yes. You started this thread to bash Ted Kennedy; you don’t give a damn about Mary Jo Kopechne, and all you knew about her before you started this thread was that Ted Kennedy brutally and viciously murdered her. Which didn’t actually happen, but you don’t often have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/37 "2009-08-26T17:57:27Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You get an air bubble trapped in the car, you can survive for a while. At any rate, Kennedy didn’t know that, and he admitted that he went back to the accident scene with his friends and dove in to try and get her out. He thought he could get her out, he just didn’t want the cops to try, I wonder why? From what I understand Chappaquiddick is a slow moving river that is only about five or six feet deep. At least that’s what someone from Mass once told me and the pictures he showed me seemed to confirm it. Is that true? If that’s true then Kennedy should have been able to get her out himself. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/38 "2009-08-26T17:58:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > In this case, yes. You started this thread to bash Ted Kennedy; you don’t give a damn about Mary Jo Kopechne, and all you knew about her before you started this thread was that Ted Kennedy brutally and viciously murdered her. Which didn’t actually happen, but you don’t often have a problem with that. No ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/39 "2009-08-26T17:59:38Z")
Her death was a tragic accident, and it’s fair to remember both “tragic” as well as “accident.” But I think the OP is a thinly-veiled attempt to blacken Ted Kennedy’s name. Yes, her death was sad. But it was an accident. In this, she differs little from any other tragic accident victim. Why, specifically, are you sadder about her? ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/40 "2009-08-26T18:02:58Z")
Didn’t this thread get closed in MPSIMS not too long ago? Are you going to open one in each page? General Questions next? maybe ATMB? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=3)