# RIP Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788 "2009-08-26T17:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/81 "2009-08-26T19:07:54Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, the laws regarding how to handle motor vehicles have only become more strict over time. > > Ted Kennedy opened the door and got out. What do you think happens if you open a car door under water? You think some water might get in? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/82 "2009-08-26T19:08:31Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > There really isn’t much to this thread to hijack, is there? You proclaim sadness you don’t feel for someone you never knew on the date of a significant news event. You believe in psychic phenomena then? Otherwise what kind of magicks are you using to read my mind? > [@](#): > > In the strange world of posting, it’s against the rules for you to do what you’re doing, too, but it’s also against the rules for me to call you on it. What am I doing that’s against the rules? It was actually ruled by the mods that I wasn’t breaking the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/83 "2009-08-26T19:10:06Z")
You can’t open the car door until the pressure equalizes - so if you open the door, it means that either there’s no air in the car or it isn’t underwater. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/84 "2009-08-26T19:10:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What do you think happens if you open a car door under water? You think some water might get in? I’m not an expert but…yeah, I think so. I mean in all fairness I am certain that there was SOME air trapped inside the car. I can say however with 100% certainty that it was not enough for her to survive. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t open the car door until the pressure equalizes - so if you open the door, it means that either there’s no air in the car or it isn’t underwater. Then he rolled down, or I should say up, the window. Bottom line, there was a Ted Kennedy sized hole somewhere in that car. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/85 "2009-08-26T19:11:04Z")
Great, then that’s settled. There was no hope of rescue. She was dead before he ever left the scene. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/86 "2009-08-26T19:13:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What makes you think there was any hope of rescue? > > I think it speaks well of Ted that the worst thing conservatives can say about him is that he once got in a car accident 40 years ago. That’s so pathetic, and desperate and reaching, and it’s not even sincere since you don’t care that Laura Bush did the same thing. GWB was a habitual drunk driver too, so it’s only a matter of luck that he didn’t kill anybody. What Laura Bush did was only superficially similar. It’s a stupid comparison. You are absolutely right about George W. Bush, he’s a total prick for doing that. > [@](#): > > By the way, Kennedy himself had suffered a cerebral concussion and shock from the crash, which probably has a lot to do with his erratic behavior afterwards. That’s fair. > [@](#): > > Dubya lied his way into an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands. Until they get outraged about that, they have no credibility pretending to care about mary Joe Kopechne. This isn’t a universal rebuttal to any poor choice a liberal makes. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Great, then that’s settled. There was no hope of rescue. She was dead before he ever left the scene. Still sad. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/87 "2009-08-26T19:13:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is it? Sure. Drunk driving was a misdemeanor then. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/88 "2009-08-26T19:15:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What makes you think there was any hope of rescue? Maybe it’s the fact that the diver who recovered her body thought she could have survived for a significant period of time breathing trapped air. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/89 "2009-08-26T19:20:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Maybe it’s the fact that the diver who recovered her body thought she could have survived for a significant period of time breathing trapped air. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/90 "2009-08-26T19:23:51Z")
[cite](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901392-1,00.html) Second to last paragraph, this is an archived story from Sept 1969 ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/91 "2009-08-26T19:23:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What Laura Bush did was only superficially similar. It’s a stupid comparison. Both committed a misdemeanor (as noted in this thread, DUI was only a misdemeanor at the time) while driving and someone ended up dead as a direct result. I’d say that’s a _lot_ more than superficially similar. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/92 "2009-08-26T19:24:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t open the car door until the pressure equalizes - so if you open the door, it means that either there’s no air in the car or it isn’t underwater. Or if a window was open. Which it most likely was. Since this was August of 1969, I think we can assume there wasn’t any AC. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/93 "2009-08-26T19:24:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Then he rolled down, or I should say up, the window. Bottom line, there was a Ted Kennedy sized hole somewhere in that car. To clarify, you can open the door if you do it pretty much as you hit the water (waiting until the water level got over the ankles was too high, IIRC), or if you wait until the water level inside the car matches that outside. Same with the window - the pressure on the glass is huge, and in testing they broke the mechanism in the door with the force involved with trying to move it and weren’t able to budge the window early. My wild-ass guesses would include that he had his window down, or that he managed to conserve enough oxygen to be able to wait until the car equalized. The latter would pretty much mean there was little or no air left, and you’re talking about two people with injuries trying to remain calm and save their own respective hides, windows open or not. I read about her being possibly pressed [“where an air bubble would have formed”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident#Discovery_of_the_body) and at that point, if she was able to survive long enough to press up into an air bubble that might or might not have been present, it’s strange that she wouldn’t then just have opened the non-pressurized door and gotten out. I would unscientifically guess that a floating corpse might go to the high point in a car, which is where an air bubble might go as well. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/94 "2009-08-26T19:26:51Z")
[Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident) > [@](#): > > Earlier that morning, two amateur fishermen had seen the overturned car in the water and notified the inhabitants of the nearest cottage to the pond, who called the authorities at around 8:20 am.[14] A diver was sent down and discovered Kopechne’s body at around 8:45 am.[15] The diver, John Farrar, later testified at the inquest that Kopechne’s body was pressed up in the car in the spot where an air bubble would have formed. He interpreted this to mean that Kopechne had survived for a while after the initial accident in the air bubble, and concluded that > “ Had I received a call within five to ten minutes of the accident occurring, and was able, as I was the following morning, to be at the victim’s side within twenty-five minutes of receiving the call, in such event there is a strong possibility that she would have been alive on removal from the submerged car." This sounds like pure speculation by the diver. He was speculating that there _might_ have been an air bubble, I guess since being a diver makes you an expert on aquatic physics and crash reconstruction. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/95 "2009-08-26T19:33:02Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Both committed a misdemeanor (as noted in this thread, DUI was only a misdemeanor at the time) while driving and someone ended up dead as a direct result. I’d say that’s a _lot_ more than superficially similar. I don’t know. I think being a teenager who just learned to drive is a better excuse than being an adult who should have known better. YMMV but you’re right the culture of the time was probably that driving home drunk was no big deal, I am sure the cars going over that bridge probably had drunk drivers as often as not after dark. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/96 "2009-08-26T19:36:57Z")
Laura Bush went through a stop sign. She wasn’t drunk tested, so we don’t know what her BAC was. ETA and just for the record, there’s no proof that Ted Kennedy was drunk either. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/97 "2009-08-26T19:38:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Laura Bush went through a stop sign. > > She wasn’t drunk tested, so we don’t know what her BAC was. Still, teenager, adult, teenager, adult, teenager, adult. Kennedy was old enough to be Laura’s Father in terms of the age differential. I really don’t think it’s hypocritical to judge kids by different standards from adults. While I think her husband was the worst President ever I can’t find it in myself to muster up animosity for her. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/98 "2009-08-26T19:39:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Still, teenager, adult, teenager, adult, teenager, adult. Kennedy was old enough to be Laura’s Father in terms of the age differential. So? Later in life Kennedy got old enough to be _his own_ father at the time of the accident and people still brought up the drowned chick. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/99 "2009-08-26T19:39:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So? Later in life Kennedy got old enough to be _his own_ father at the time of the accident and people still brought up the drowned chick. Teenager, adult, teenager, adult, teenager, adult, teenager, adult. Do I need to explain further? Also, didn’t flee the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/100 "2009-08-26T19:40:17Z")
Upside down in the car after it went off a bridge? Richard Hammond on Top Gear pretty much died when they dropped his car into water, right side up. [You Tube: Part One](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkFR2f7zYac&feature=PlayList&p=793CABDF042A9514&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34) [You Tube: Part Two](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyx1E2s-tsE&feature=PlayList&p=793CABDF042A9514&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=33) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=6)