# RIP Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788 "2009-08-26T17:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/101 "2009-08-26T19:41:14Z")
> [@Tenebras](#): > > Upside down in the car after it went off a bridge? Richard Hammond on Top Gear pretty much died when they dropped his car into water, right side up. > > [You Tube: Part One](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkFR2f7zYac&feature=PlayList&p=793CABDF042A9514&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34) > [You Tube: Part Two](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyx1E2s-tsE&feature=PlayList&p=793CABDF042A9514&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=33) Pretty much died? Did he or didn’t he die? I don’t know if I want to watch a long video where someone dies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/102 "2009-08-26T19:42:02Z")
He didn’t, though that was his second _televised_ brush with death. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/103 "2009-08-26T19:42:54Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Both committed a misdemeanor (as noted in this thread, DUI was only a misdemeanor at the time) while driving and someone ended up dead as a direct result. I’d say that’s a _lot_ more than superficially similar. Do you have a cite that Laura Bush was convicted of a misdemeanor? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/104 "2009-08-26T19:44:07Z")
Did Ted Kennedy ever publically apologize to her family? If he did that would give me a lot of respect for the man. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/105 "2009-08-26T19:48:05Z")
mswas, I have nothing in particular against you, but you seem to be on a crusade of antagonism recently. I have definite mixed feelings about Chappaquiddick. 1. Yes, he walked away, but, 2. He did try several times to rescue Kopechne himself, and 3. there’s no guarantee that she could be rescued at all, given the time and distance to “official” help, BUT, 4. I’ve always been uncomfortable with the lack of punishment, even self-imposed, that Senator Kennedy received. This was a human life. Her death, even if accidental and unavoidable, should have had consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/106 "2009-08-26T19:48:56Z")
I think **Duke** may be conflating moving violations with misdemeanors. In any case, the Laura Welch/Bush stop sign thing is totally irrelevant. She’s not a candidate or a holder of public office, so why the fuck should anyone care? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/107 "2009-08-26T19:49:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite that Laura Bush was convicted of a misdemeanor? Was running a stop sign in Texas in '74 a misdeameanor? Now that you mention it, I’m not sure. Edit: **RNATB** may have answered that for me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/108 "2009-08-26T19:52:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite that Laura Bush was convicted of a misdemeanor? How is this relevant? It’s undisputed that she blasted through a stop sign. The fact that she was not charged (for unexplained reasons), does not alter the actual facts of the accident or relieve her of her negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/109 "2009-08-26T20:03:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > She’s not a candidate or a holder of public office, so why the fuck should anyone care? Well according to the OP, this isn’t about Laura. Or about Ted. It’s about the victim(s) and how they’ve instantly been forgotten (when in fact they haven’t and won’t be). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/110 "2009-08-26T20:06:38Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > mswas, I have nothing in particular against you, but you seem to be on a crusade of antagonism recently. I have definite mixed feelings about Chappaquiddick. > > 1. Yes, he walked away, but, > 2. He did try several times to rescue Kopechne himself, and > 3. there’s no guarantee that she could be rescued at all, given the time and distance to “official” help, BUT, > 4. I’ve always been uncomfortable with the lack of punishment, even self-imposed, that Senator Kennedy received. This was a human life. Her death, even if accidental and unavoidable, should have had consequences. The idea that it’s a crusade of antagonism is a bit overwrought. People get antagonized by the way I choose to act. I am not acting FOR them as antagonism implies. I am acting despite them. I share your views on Kennedy pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/111 "2009-08-26T20:07:57Z")
Yes, Mary Jo Kopechne was an aid to his brother Robert. I guess she knew the family quite well. I’d be interested if her parents are still alive, what they have to say about his death. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/112 "2009-08-26T20:09:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > [cite](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901392-1,00.html) > > Second to last paragraph, this is an archived story from Sept 1969 From that cite: > [@](#): > > Unchallenged Thesis. > But his lawyers increasingly feared that the inquest, under Judge Boyle’s terms, could take on some aspects of a kangaroo court. Boyle [ruled that] lawyers for the witnesses—including Kennedy and the others who attended the Chappaquiddick cookout—had no right to cross-examine or challenge testimony on the grounds of irrelevancy. > > What, then, if John Farrar, the scuba diver who recovered Mary Jo’s body from the bottom of Poucha Pond, were to take the stand to promulgate his theory that the girl probably lived, breathing in an air pocket, for some time after the accident? Under Boyle’s strictures, Kennedy’s attorneys would not have been permitted to produce expert testimony to challenge Farrar’s thesis or his qualifications. And now, 40 years later, with those qualifications and that thesis still unchallenged, you’re willing to rely on it, eh? Even his version seems unlikely. Was he an on-call diver? Was it really likely that Kennedy could have gotten to a phone in ten minutes and gotten the diver there in 30 minutes? I don’t see it, and as I hinted before, if he had, you’d doubtless be complaining about how he didn’t even try to dive down himself, but left her to die. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/113 "2009-08-26T20:14:34Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Pretty much died? Did he or didn’t he die? I don’t know if I want to watch a long video where someone dies. In fact he did not die. As part of a television stunt, he sat in a car which was dropped into a tank of water and let to sink. Because small British car enthusiasts suitable for broadcast on television are a bit thin on the ground (it’s that last criterion that really narrows things down) the producers of the show took certain precautions to prevent his demise being broadcast to millions. Namely, they installed a diver with an air supply in the back seat of the car, in case Mr Hammond should need assistance. Actually, that’s all a lie. The links aren’t to Top Gear at all, they’re to 2girls1cup. Click at your own risk. With love, TenebrasM7 ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/114 "2009-08-26T20:16:06Z")
Ted Kennedy faced a judge and an inquiry, as well as taking it on the chin in the court of public opinion. Even on the day of his death this albatross still haunts him. He expressed about as much regret, as one man could, in one lifetime. Laura Bush never received so much as a ticket or wrap on the knuckles for taking a life with her car. Anyone ever hear so much as a whisper of regret from Laura? You’re right they’re like apples and oranges, what were we thinking? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/115 "2009-08-26T20:18:29Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I’m no fan of Ted Kennedy but 40 years is a long time. Truth be told, many of us will come to be uncomfortable with who we were 40 years earlier. Yeah, I was regularly shitting my pants 40 years ago. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/116 "2009-08-26T20:19:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > From that cite: > > And now, 40 years later, with those qualifications and that thesis still unchallenged, you’re willing to rely on it, eh? > > Even his version seems unlikely. Was he an on-call diver? Was it really likely that Kennedy could have gotten to a phone in ten minutes and gotten the diver there in 30 minutes? I don’t see it, and as I hinted before, if he had, you’d doubtless be complaining about how he didn’t even try to dive down himself, but left her to die. Here’s a [scanned article](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CR8LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Z1ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7074,2162528) from 1969 where the diver claims he was “at the victim’s side” 25 minutes after he got the call. There’s also the fact that Ted had to walk past 4 other houses to get back to the party where his friends were, including one within sight of the bridge, so a phone call to police within 15 minutes of the accident is certainly within the realm of possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/117 "2009-08-26T20:20:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The fact that she was not charged (for unexplained reasons), does not alter the actual facts of the accident or relieve her of her negligence. Nobody is attempting to relieve her of responsibility, yet plenty of people here want to ignore Kennedy’s post accident behavior based on the fact that Mary Jo was probably dead anyway. Yeah, she was probably dead, and the diver was probably wrong, and Ted was probably not drunk off his ass. Mary Jo was someone’s little girl, and I don’t care if she was most likely dead or not, you don’t leave and go back to your hotel room. Nobody deserves to get left for dead in a car because the guy who caused the accident wanted to get some sleep. Bricker, if Kennedy had dived down for her, then stopped at the first house to call the police for help, and waited for the police at the accident site, I wouldn’t have a single problem with any of his post accident actions. It’s not that hard, you try to save her (he claims he did) if you can’t, you call for help. Simple. Compare that to the ridiculous set of post accident choices that suspiciously/coincidentally result in nobody other than Ted and his buddies knowing about the accident until the next day. Nobody called the police, nobody told anyone else, and Ted spent the night at his hotel. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/118 "2009-08-26T20:22:31Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Ted Kennedy faced a judge and an inquiry, as well as taking it on the chin in the court of public opinion. Even on the day of his death this albatross still haunts him. He expressed about as much regret, as one man could, in one lifetime. > > Laura Bush never received so much as a ticket or wrap on the knuckles for taking a life with her car. > Anyone ever hear so much as a whisper of regret from Laura? > > You’re right they’re like apples and oranges, what were we thinking? Was Laura in the public eye at the time of the accident? How do you know she didn’t apologize? I mean maybe Kennedy did so privately. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/119 "2009-08-26T20:23:24Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Laura Bush never received so much as a ticket or wrap on the knuckles for taking a life with her car. > Anyone ever hear so much as a whisper of regret from Laura? Just as I have steadfastly defended Senator Kennedy, I will point out that the future Laura Bush also had an ACCIDENT. She had no intent to kill anyone, and could not have been charged with killing anyone merely because a death resulted from running a stop sign. > [@](#): > > According to the two-page accident report, Laura Welch was driving her Chevrolet sedan on a clear night shortly after 8 p.m. on Nov. 6, 1963, when she drove into an intersection and struck a Corvair sedan driven by 17-year-old Michael Douglas. > > Although previous news accounts have reported Douglas was thrown from the car and broke his neck, those details were not in the report. > > The speed of Laura Bush’s car was illegible on the report. The speed limit for the road was 55. > > Laura Bush and her passenger, Judy Dykes, also 17, were taken to a hospital and treated for minor injuries, according to an accident account printed at the time in the Midland Reporter-Telegram. > > The police report indicates no charges were filed. Accident. Nothing criminal about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/120 "2009-08-26T20:23:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That isn’t the point. I am not talking about being remembered by history. I have kids, so because of that I will be remembered at least into the next generation. Childless people who didn’t die in car wrecks are in the same boat as Mary Jo. What’s your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=7)