# RIP Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788 "2009-08-26T17:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/121 "2009-08-26T20:26:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Bricker, if Kennedy had dived down for her, then stopped at the first house to call the police for help, and waited for the police at the accident site, I wouldn’t have a single problem with any of his post accident actions. It’s not that hard, you try to save her (he claims he did) if you can’t, you call for help. Simple. > > Compare that to the ridiculous set of post accident choices that suspiciously/coincidentally result in nobody other than Ted and his buddies knowing about the accident until the next day. Nobody called the police, nobody told anyone else, and Ted spent the night at his hotel. No one thinks that this was Ted Kennedy’s finest hour. But you can hardly claim his mistakes AFTER the acciddent led to her death. If you want to hang him for his poor choices after the event, that’s fine – just don’t impute the death to his deliberate actions… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/122 "2009-08-26T20:28:04Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Childless people who didn’t die in car wrecks are in the same boat as Mary Jo. What’s your point? What’s yours? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/123 "2009-08-26T20:28:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just as I have steadfastly defended Senator Kennedy, I will point out that the future Laura Bush also had an ACCIDENT. She had no intent to kill anyone, and could not have been charged with killing anyone merely because a death resulted from running a stop sign. > > Accident. Nothing criminal about it. You didn’t provide a link for this, and your quoted portion also omits the fact that she ran through a stop sign. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/124 "2009-08-26T20:30:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Blacken his name how? He killed her and everyone knows it. Yes, it’s relevant. So while people are remembering his life, I wanted to remember hers. I mean it’s obvious that I started this thread because Ted Kennedy died, but the hyperbole is unnecessary. I wanted to put up a remembrance of her, and if that blackens Ted Kennedy’s name it’s not because of anything I have done. He killed her. full stop. You don’t know the details of her death. Do you say that any person who was driving at the time of a fatal accident “killed” their passengers? Why don’t you say “he was unable to save her” or “failed to extract her from the car?” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/125 "2009-08-26T20:32:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What’s yours? My point is that people die without having children all the time. This is not noteworthy, regardless of how she died. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/126 "2009-08-26T20:33:29Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > My point is that people die without having children all the time. This is not noteworthy, regardless of how she died. Why do you think it’s not noteworthy? Or more specifically define for me what makes something noteworthy. What does one have to do in order to deserve being remembered? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/127 "2009-08-26T20:35:46Z")
Anyway, how do you know her children wouldn’t have been Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/128 "2009-08-26T20:37:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you can hardly claim his mistakes AFTER the acciddent led to her death. Someone did claim this, at the time of the accident, the diver who pulled her out of the car. I have yet to see anyone put up their own cite, with their own expert, stating that it was impossible for her to survive on trapped air for 30 minutes. I’m a man who believes in evidence and expert testimony, so Ted Supporters, go ahead and knock my socks off. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/129 "2009-08-26T20:37:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, how do you know her children wouldn’t have been Hitler? Well, it would have posed some rather unpleasant paradoxes vis-a-vis the space-time continuum. You know, what with Hitler already having been born and died. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/130 "2009-08-26T20:43:13Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Someone did claim this, at the time of the accident, the diver who pulled her out of the car. I have yet to see anyone put up their own cite, with their own expert, stating that it was impossible for her to survive on trapped air for 30 minutes. I’m a man who believes in evidence and expert testimony, so Ted Supporters, go ahead and knock my socks off. How is the diver qualified as an expert witness on car crashes and air bubbles? The diver was speculating that there MIGHT have been an airbubble. He provided no evdience that there actually WAS one? Are you serious with trying to hold this dude up as a cite for anything? You’re grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/131 "2009-08-26T20:44:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Why do you think it’s not noteworthy? Or more specifically define for me what makes something noteworthy. What does one have to do in order to deserve being remembered? No one “deserves” to be remembered. They do things that people remember them for. It happens naturally, for some. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not. What if she had kids and they all died before she did? What if she wanted to be childless? What if she was incapable of conceiving a child? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/132 "2009-08-26T20:47:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Also, in the recent ATMB thread, you said:To be quite honest, i literally do not believe that you care about Mary Jo Kopechne, nor that you are actually sad about her. The idea that you are sad about the death, over 40 years ago, of a woman you never met is completely preposterous, and leads me to believe that you’re simply posturing. > > As for the idea that she’s about to be “forgotten by history,” please spare us the melodrama. The Chappaquiddick incident, all by itself, probably prevented Ted Kennedy from becoming president. Even leaving that aside, it’s become a part of our cultural history. And as long as obsessives like you continue your histrionics over it, that’s unlikely to change. I think you have that right. Ms. Was is full of it. Doesn’t give a damn about Mary Jo Kopechne or her family, and probably can’t tell you the names of any one of them, and won’t let what the family thinks of the incident cross her lips. Probably doesn’t know anything else about her. Ted’s driving killed her and he regretted it for the rest of his days. He pleaded guilty to what he was charged with, leaving the scene of an accident. If this incident had never happened, the Ted Kennedy haters would still find other things to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/133 "2009-08-26T20:55:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just as I have steadfastly defended Senator Kennedy, I will point out that the future Laura Bush also had an ACCIDENT. She had no intent to kill anyone, and could not have been charged with killing anyone merely because a death resulted from running a stop sign. If it happened in Ohio, she could have been charged with it, actually. There’s a statute that says that if, in the commission of a minor misdemeanor traffic offense, you cause an accident that kills someone, you can be charged with misdemeanor manslaughter. My good friend is defending someone charged with it right now. But yeah, I’ve seen people charged with killing someone after they ran a stop sign, followed too close, changed lanes improperly, or went the wrong way down a one-way street. “But for the grace of God,” and all that. About 50% of the time, the person who was killed was a passenger in the driver’s own car. These cases are pretty much horrible to deal with for everyone involved–the prosecutor has to deal with the family of the dead victim, and the defendant has to deal with knowing they accidentally killed someone for the rest of their life. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/134 "2009-08-26T21:00:18Z")
I have no cite other than my own memory, but Kennedy did apologize very publicly, in a nationwide televised statement, to the Kopechne family. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/135 "2009-08-26T21:05:13Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No one “deserves” to be remembered. They do things that people remember them for. It happens naturally, for some. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not. What if she had kids and they all died before she did? What if she wanted to be childless? What if she was incapable of conceiving a child? I don’t know, I think human life has an intrinsic value. There are all what-ifs but I’m not really interested in playing the, “let’s diminish the value of her life”, game. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/136 "2009-08-26T21:07:24Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I think you have that right. Ms. Was is full of it. Doesn’t give a damn about Mary Jo Kopechne or her family, and probably can’t tell you the names of any one of them, and won’t let what the family thinks of the incident cross her lips. Probably doesn’t know anything else about her. Ted’s driving killed her and he regretted it for the rest of his days. He pleaded guilty to what he was charged with, leaving the scene of an accident. If this incident had never happened, the Ted Kennedy haters would still find other things to hate. What makes you think I hate Ted Kennedy other than this thread? Is mentioned Mary Jo Kopechne on the day of the death of the man who killed her sufficient evidence for you? No, I don’t know her family, but that’s immaterial. I used this thread to get to know a little bit about her. It’s really unfortunate that people are not the least bit curious about her. Mostly they are vitriolic that I even bring her up. Why not try and you know, actually talk about her rather than trying to shout me down for doing it? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/137 "2009-08-26T21:08:33Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > I have no cite other than my own memory, but Kennedy did apologize very publicly, in a nationwide televised statement, to the Kopechne family. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/138 "2009-08-26T21:12:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I used this thread to get to know a little bit about her. No you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/139 "2009-08-26T21:13:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No you didn’t. Yes I did. If people would actually stick to the topic rather than try to hijack it with their amateur psychoanalysis of my motives then the thread could actually be interesting. I mean the bit about breaking apart her death WAS interesting, but I am genuinely interested in knowing more about her. From her Wiki I know now that she was an only child and that she was an aid to Robert Kennedy and that she was rising pretty fast amongst the ranks of the behind the scenes Washington scene. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/140 "2009-08-26T21:14:21Z")
Googling “Kennedy Kopechne apology” brings up the video. The first hit is a link to the Freepers, who naturally spin the video in the opposite direction, but the video is there, and yes, Kennedy apologized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=8)