# RIP Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788 "2009-08-26T17:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/141 "2009-08-26T21:17:23Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I don’t know, I think human life has an intrinsic value. There are all what-ifs but I’m not really interested in playing the, “let’s diminish the value of her life”, game. No, but that’s because you’re playing the “let’s artificially inflate the value of her life” game, which is rather silly if you don’t do it for every single person, good or bad, who ever lived. And you don’t. She deserves no more and no less notoriety than any other human being. Why are you pretending she does? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/142 "2009-08-26T21:18:29Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No, but that’s because you’re playing the “let’s artificially inflate the value of her life” game, which is rather silly if you don’t do it for every single person, good or bad, who ever lived. And you don’t. She deserves no more and no less notoriety than any other human being. Why are you pretending she does? So you think that starting one thread about her is pretending that she deserves more notoriety than any other human being? You don’t think that every human being deserves to have a message board thread about them? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/143 "2009-08-26T21:21:20Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Googling “Kennedy Kopechne apology” brings up the video. The first hit is a link to the Freepers, who naturally spin the video in the opposite direction, but the video is there, and yes, Kennedy apologized. Correction, for clarity. He doesn’t say “I’m sorry” (at least, not in the 4:24 snippet on Youtube), but the entire speech is contrite. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/144 "2009-08-26T21:26:03Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Googling “Kennedy Kopechne apology” brings up the video. The first hit is a link to the Freepers, who naturally spin the video in the opposite direction, but the video is there, and yes, Kennedy apologized. He talks about himself for like 5 minutes. He doesn’t apologize to her family at all. He just talks about how horrible it was for him and his family. How sad they are for losing a friend. I mean sure it’s an apology and I am not saying it’s not a real apology but it does seem mostly about him. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/145 "2009-08-26T21:30:40Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > He talks about himself for like 5 minutes. He doesn’t apologize to her family at all. He just talks about how horrible it was for him and his family. How sad they are for losing a friend. I mean sure it’s an apology and I am not saying it’s not a real apology but it does seem mostly about him. That’s a bit of an inaccurate summary. He does talk about himself, but most of the video is spent trying to give a blow-by-blow explanation of exactly what happened that night. I have no idea if it’s factually accurate, but he does acknowledge his confusion, and if he truly was diagnosed with a concussion, it explains much of his ineffectual efforts and actions. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/146 "2009-08-26T21:32:47Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > That’s a bit of an inaccurate summary. He does talk about himself, but most of the video is spent trying to give a blow-by-blow explanation of exactly what happened that night. I have no idea if it’s factually accurate, but he does acknowledge his confusion, and if he truly was diagnosed with a concussion, it explains much of his ineffectual efforts and actions. Ahh then I saw the wrong link. What I saw was him talking about his legacy and his desire to serve the people of Massachussetts and everything. I was also put off a little bit when he turned to camera 2. Maybe there is more on Camera 1 that he did when he was talking because Camera 1 is a much more intimate shot, and when he switches to Camera 2 that’s when he starts talking about the fate of his political career. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/147 "2009-08-26T21:36:16Z")
It’s not that Mary Jo Kopechne was so great. It’s not even drinking and driving. It’s that young Ted Kennedy was a dick in how he handled it. I suppose a man can grow past that, but yeah, it’s an emblem of privilege & arrogance, it’s been very successfully used by the right against the entire Kennedy name & the Democratic Party, & those who dismiss it as a non-event are going to keep being surprised by working-class support for the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/148 "2009-08-26T21:36:39Z")
Ah. Here’s the direct Youtube link: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/l0hdhLG0g6A/hqdefault.jpg "Ted Kennedy Chappequiddick Lie") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0hdhLG0g6A) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/149 "2009-08-26T22:11:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How is the diver qualified as an expert witness on car crashes and air bubbles? The guy is is a million times more qualified than YOUR expert, who is nobody. He was there, he’s a scuba diver who knows the in’s and out’s of underwater work. Your expert wasn’t there, because you don’t have one. He provided detailed explanation of his theory to an inquest. Your expert hasn’t provided detailed anything refuting this theory because he doesn’t exist. Put up or shut up. Provide ONE piece of expert testimony or conjecture that states it would be impossible (or nearly so) for Mary Jo to have survived 30 minutes with trapped air. ONE. Just ONE. We’ve been tossing around this event for 40 years, surely ONE expert has weighed in on this possibility. ---
**Author:** ![TJVM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b38774/32.png) [@TJVM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJVM)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/150 "2009-08-26T22:12:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It makes me very sad that Mary Jo Kopechne is just a footnote in Ted Kennedy’s byline. Now that he is dead she is about to be forgotten by history. That makes me very sad. I question your premise that she has been forgotten. Both the Washington Post and Boston Globe obituaries discuss the incident, including her name. True, the incident is not the obituaries’ primary focus (which I suspect is what you would like) but it’s hardly been overlooked. And, of course, the blogosphere has not been left out. A [Google blog search](http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mary+jo+kopechne&btnG=Search+Blogs) reveals numerous discussions of Chappaquiddick (sample headline: “[Mary Jo Kopechne Could Not Be Reached for Comment](http://rsmccain.blogspot.com/2009/08/mary-jo-kopechne-could-not-be-reached.html)”). You’re entitled to hop on that bandwagon if you like (Kennedy’s conduct was indeed reprehensible) but it seems disingenuous to act like this is a forgotten subject. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/151 "2009-08-26T22:30:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So you think that starting one thread about her is pretending that she deserves more notoriety than any other human being? You don’t think that every human being deserves to have a message board thread about them? Yes, I think that you chose this day to drudge up something that happened 40 years ago, because YOU think she deserves more notoriety than Ted Kennedy and you don’t want people to forget that he made a terrible error in judgement. I think this because you refer to him as her killer rather than someone that was party to a very tragic event. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/152 "2009-08-26T22:31:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I suppose a man can grow past that, but yeah, it’s an emblem of privilege & arrogance, it’s been very successfully used by the right against the entire Kennedy name & the Democratic Party, Really? From where I stand, it looks like it did irreparable damage to Kennedy’s Presidential hopes, and barely affected anyone else. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > & those who dismiss it as a non-event are going to keep being surprised by working-class support for the GOP. They can join the rest of us who will debate actual policy instead of a car accident that happened forty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/153 "2009-08-26T22:54:17Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Mary Jo was someone’s little girl, and I don’t care if she was most likely dead or not, you don’t leave and go back to your hotel room. Nobody deserves to get left for dead in a car because the guy who caused the accident wanted to get some sleep. I think that is the essence of it for me. The way he (and his friends for that matter) handled the accident was seriously wrong and I do think it reflects very badly on his character regardless of what else he did in life. If something like this had happened to my daughter, I would have spent the rest of my life trying to make his life miserable and making sure that nobody forgot what he did. “Oh, so you didn’t get to be president? Yeah, that sacrifice totally makes up for leaving my daughter at the bottom of a lake overnight because you didn’t want to get in trouble. Clearly you’ve suffered enough”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/154 "2009-08-26T22:58:27Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The guy is is a million times more qualified than YOUR expert, who is nobody. No he isn’t, actually. He has no qualifications whatsoever, actually. Not only that, but he still provided no evidence that there ever was an air bubble. He was talking out of his ass. If he wants to claim Kopechne was still alive, he needs to actually prove it, not just babble some “post-is-my-cite” speculation based on the fact that he wears a pair of swim flippers. > [@](#): > > Put up or shut up. Provide ONE piece of expert testimony or conjecture that states it would be impossible (or nearly so) for Mary Jo to have survived 30 minutes with trapped air. ONE. Just ONE. We’ve been tossing around this event for 40 years, surely ONE expert has weighed in on this possibility. Prove there was any trapped air. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/155 "2009-08-26T22:59:40Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So you think that starting one thread about her is pretending that she deserves more notoriety than any other human being? You don’t think that every human being deserves to have a message board thread about them? Well, obviously _you_ don’t think that. Evidence is as follows: Number of people who have died since **mswas** joined the SDMB who were responsible in some way for someone else’s death at some point in their life: 7,258,642. Number of eulogies to these people’s victims posted by **mswas** on the date of the death of that responsible party: 1. So evidently, there’s something very special to you about Ms. Kopechne’s death in particular, or about Mr. Kennedy, that inspired you to post about this particular instance. Naturally, we’re all curious what that is. And your deflections are transparently disingenuous. Ms. Kopechne was eulogized when she died, 40 years ago. Today we’re eulogizing Kennedy. And that’s not the time to try to dredge up his no doubt numerous mistakes, even the most egregious. This is the time when we should all be looking at the positive impact he had on the world. I can guarantee you that, on the day of your death, nobody will be harping on any of the stupid or assholish things you did in your life. It’s all in the past anyway at this point–why shouldn’t we focus on the positive? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/156 "2009-08-26T23:00:44Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > I question your premise that she has been forgotten. Both the Washington Post and Boston Globe obituaries discuss the incident, including her name. True, the incident is not the obituaries’ primary focus (which I suspect is what you would like) but it’s hardly been overlooked. > > And, of course, the blogosphere has not been left out. A [Google blog search](http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mary+jo+kopechne&btnG=Search+Blogs) reveals numerous discussions of Chappaquiddick (sample headline: “[Mary Jo Kopechne Could Not Be Reached for Comment](http://rsmccain.blogspot.com/2009/08/mary-jo-kopechne-could-not-be-reached.html)”). You’re entitled to hop on that bandwagon if you like (Kennedy’s conduct was indeed reprehensible) but it seems disingenuous to act like this is a forgotten subject. I said, “ABOUT to be forgotten”. She’ll be forgotten because now that Ted Kennedy is dead there isn’t much reason to keep talking about it. I give her about a month before the living memory begins to fade irrevocably. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/157 "2009-08-26T23:02:32Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Yes, I think that you chose this day to drudge up something that happened 40 years ago, because YOU think she deserves more notoriety than Ted Kennedy and you don’t want people to forget that he made a terrible error in judgement. I think this because you refer to him as her killer rather than someone that was party to a very tragic event. Ok that’s much closer to my real intention than most have gotten. Yes, I think it’s unfair that she is forgotten and that she deserves to be remembered on this day. But I have been swayed by the arguments that he was a party to a tragic event. That’s no doubt true, but I think he did handle it a bit like a spoiled little rich kid. No doubt if this were a Bush it would’ve been handled remarkably similarly. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/158 "2009-08-26T23:04:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No he isn’t, actually. He has no qualifications whatsoever, actually. So you really think that a police diver has no training in how to deal with a car that crashes into the water? Really? I mean like for real? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/159 "2009-08-26T23:07:59Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Well, obviously _you_ don’t think that. Evidence is as follows: > > Number of people who have died since **mswas** joined the SDMB who were responsible in some way for someone else’s death at some point in their life: 7,258,642. I don’t know what this number even means. > [@](#): > > Number of eulogies to these people’s victims posted by **mswas** on the date of the death of that responsible party: 1. Point being? > [@](#): > > So evidently, there’s something very special to you about Ms. Kopechne’s death in particular, or about Mr. Kennedy, that inspired you to post about this particular instance. Naturally, we’re all curious what that is. And your deflections are transparently disingenuous. Yes, obviously, no one is disputing that it is relevant that it was Kennedy and Kopechne. I really don’t see what you’re getting at. Your amateur psychoanalysis is going over my head or under my feet, I can’t tell which. > [@](#): > > Ms. Kopechne was eulogized when she died, 40 years ago. Today we’re eulogizing Kennedy. And that’s not the time to try to dredge up his no doubt numerous mistakes, even the most egregious. This is the time when we should all be looking at the positive impact he had on the world. I can guarantee you that, on the day of your death, nobody will be harping on any of the stupid or assholish things you did in your life. It’s all in the past anyway at this point–why shouldn’t we focus on the positive? So go eulogize Kennedy, who is stopping you? I specificaly started a thread for her so that I wouldn’t interrupt the threads on him. But you can’t win because some people think that things have to be their way 100% of the time or they can’t handle it. It certainly is the time to bring it up, it’s the PERFECT time to bring it up. When remembering someone’s life you don’t just remember the good stuff. I think you’re idolizing the positive. It’s common at the time of someone’s death but I don’t share your view. Besides Kennedy was Irish, wakes were times when the fighting stopped but people still spat at each other from across the coffin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788/160 "2009-08-26T23:08:58Z")
I can swim too. Does that make me an expert on crash reconstruction and air bubbles? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-mary-jo-kopechne/507788.md?page=9)