# RIP Phil Niekro (MLB pitcher) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** celebrity-death, baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029 "2020-12-27T17:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/1 "2020-12-27T17:50:30Z")
Hall of Fame knuckleball pitcher Phil Niekro, who pitched in 24 MLB seasons (mostly for the Braves), and won 318 games, died last night at age 81, after a long battle against cancer. Niekro pitched until the age of 48, and he won 121 games after his 40th birthday (a record). His brother Joe was also a successful knuckleballer, winning 221 games; the two Niekros were taught the pitch by their father, and they hold the MLB record for wins by siblings. Someone in a Facebook sports group that I follow noted that Niekro’s death makes eight members of the Baseball Hall of Fame who have died in 2020. ☹ > **[Hall of Fame knuckleballer Phil Niekro dies at 81](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30605849/hall-fame-pitcher-phil-niekro-famous-signature-knuckleball-dies-81)** > > Phil Niekro, a pitcher who used his signature knuckleball to fool generations of hitters and craft a Hall of Fame career, died Saturday night in his sleep, the Braves announced Sunday. He was 81. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/2 "2020-12-27T18:06:54Z")
He was a fun pitcher to watch. He pitched well for the Yanks for 2 years in his mid-40s. Got 16 wins each year. This was after being a Brave for 21 years. He actually started with the Milwaukee Braves. * * * Hard to believe we lost 8 Hall of Famers. So I’ve come up with 6 other names: **Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver** **Al Kaline, Joe Morgan & Lou Brock** I can’t think of an 8th. Probably a non-player? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/3 "2020-12-27T18:19:48Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Hard to believe we lost 8 Hall of Famers. > So I’ve come up with 6 other names: > **Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver** > **Al Kaline, Joe Morgan & Lou Brock** > > I can’t think of an 8th. Probably a non-player? This article from two days ago lists those same six, so I wonder if the guy who had posted on Facebook had miscounted. > **[Baseball’s heartache: Remembering the six Hall of Famers who died in 2020](https://www.nydailynews.com/2020/12/25/baseballs-heartache-remembering-the-six-hall-of-famers-who-died-in-2020/)** > > In his memory, Tim Mead travels back to early October 1968. He’s 10 years old. It’s the World Series, Cardinals versus Tigers, and a teacher is wheeling a black-and-white television int… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/4 "2020-12-27T18:27:14Z")
He might have prematurely included Dick Allen, who might have been elected by the Golden Days committee this year if their vote hadn’t been canceled by the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/5 "2020-12-27T18:28:43Z")
Or got confused and thought Don Larsen was in the Hall of Fame and not just his perfect game objects. He sadly passed January 1st. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/6 "2020-12-27T18:33:20Z")
I remember watching Niekro in the early ‘80s, when we first got cable TV, and the Braves’ games were on WTBS. He was fun to watch – he clearly enjoyed playing, he liked to push the envelope on what was a legal pitch, and just watching a sweaty, gray-haired guy throw junkballs that batters couldn’t hit was very entertaining. I strongly believe that that Eddie Harris, the aging spitball pitcher in the film _Major League_, was based on Phil Niekro. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/7 "2020-12-27T19:01:23Z")
I saw him pitch a game in Wrigley Field when I was a kid, back in 1969. It was the height of the Cubs-Will-win-the-Pennant! craze and the place was packed—we wound up standing on a ramp on the third base side. Niekro pitched well. He allowed a three run homer to Ron Santo in the first (I can still see it in my minds eye) and that was it. But he had the misfortune of going up against Ken Holtzman that day, and Holtzman pitched a no hitter. I believe Niekro did get one of his own later on… he was always fun to watch. What a year. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/8 "2020-12-27T19:04:59Z")
I enjoyed watching him when he was on the Yankees in the mid-eighties. It was also cool that his brother Joe joined him on the team. Has a team had two knuckle-ballers at the same time since? We will not see his like again. Are there any current knuckle-ballers at all? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/9 "2020-12-27T19:06:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Are there any current knuckle-ballers at all? It doesn’t look like it. [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckleball#Rarity): > [@](#): > > As of 2019, [Steven Wright](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Wright_(baseball)) of the [Boston Red Sox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox) was considered to be the last active knuckleballer in the MLB; he has since been released from the team.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_ ] Minor leaguer Mickey Jannis of the [Binghamton Rumble Ponies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_Rumble_Ponies) also throws the knuckleball.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_ ] > > On September 20, 2020, the first knuckleball thrown in 2020 was by [Todd Frazier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Frazier), normally a third baseman in a 15-2 blowout loss to [Atlanta Braves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Braves). [Wright’s Baseball Reference entry](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighst01.shtml) shows his last MLB appearance to have been in July of 2019. [Jannis](https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=jannis001mic) is a career minor-leaguer, who last pitched (in both AA and AAA) in 2019, as well (likely because there was no MiLB season in 2020). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/10 "2020-12-27T22:43:36Z")
I remember listening to his 300th win on the radio. I can quote myself from a few years ago: > Phil Niekro won his 300th game on the last day of the 1985 season, an 8-0 shutout of division champs Toronto. What was kind of cool about it, Niekro didn’t throw a knuckleball until the very last batter. The story [here.](http://articles.latimes.com/1985-10-07/sports/sp-16727_1_phil-niekro) RIP, Phil. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/11 "2020-12-27T22:50:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Has a team had two knuckle-ballers at the same time since? - [1945 Senators.](https://www.pitcherlist.com/knuckleheads-the-1945-senators-and-the-first-all-knuckleball-rotation/) All knuckeballer rotation. Or non-rotation, if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/12 "2020-12-27T22:54:15Z")
1945 doesn’t qualify as **since** , but that is cool. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/13 "2020-12-27T22:54:35Z")
Missed the edit window. Niekro was 28 before he became a regular starter, and yet is fourth all-time in innings pitched (5,404.) That knuckle ball is gentle on the arm; I don’t think he had any serious injuries over his long career. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/14 "2020-12-27T23:00:25Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > 1945 doesn’t qualify as **since** , but that is cool. - Oops. So far, I haven’t found any all knuckleball pitching staffs before or after. ---
**Author:** ![GreaterZamboni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GreaterZamboni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreaterZamboni)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/15 "2020-12-28T01:37:46Z")
RIP to Niekro, Dick Allen and the others listed above. The 1987 Cleveland Indians had two knuckle-ballers in the starting rotation: Niekro and Tom Candiotti. Niekro and the Candy Man tied for the team lead in wins with 7, and yes, the Indians really stunk in the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/16 "2020-12-28T01:53:57Z")
One of Niekro’s more remarkable seasons was 1979, when he led the National League with 21 wins (for a last place team) and led the Majors with 20 losses. He had 41 decisions out of 44 starts. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/17 "2020-12-28T15:36:47Z")
His stats earned him 7.4 WAR that year, but he was even better year before, racking up 10 WAR with a 19-18 record and a 2.88 ERA. He compiled 45 complete games over those two seasons, and would have easily won two Cy Young awards by modern standards. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/18 "2020-12-28T21:44:20Z")
Niekro led MLB in ERA in 1967 with 1.67. That same year Bob Uecker came over to the Braves from the Phillies, and led the Majors with 27 passed balls (25 of them with the Braves) mainly because of catching for Niekro. The Wiki article on Niekro has this anecdote by Uecker: > [@](#): > > Catcher [Bob Uecker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Uecker) was also frustrated by the pitch at times, saying, “Niekro struck out a hitter once and I never touched the ball. It hit me in the shinguard, bounced out to [Clete Boyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clete_Boyer) at third base and he threw out the runner at first. Talk about a weird assist: 2–5–3 on a strikeout.”[[25]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Niekro#cite_note-25) Uecker also said he got to meet many famous people when he caught for Niekro, running back to the seats behind home plate where the rich people sat. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/19 "2020-12-29T13:03:12Z")
I was coming in to mention the emery board incident, but then remembered that was Joe. I bet those two had some pretty funny baseball conversations over the years. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029/20 "2020-12-29T16:45:28Z")
“It actually giggles at you as it goes by.” - Rick Monday, on Phil Niekro’s knuckleball [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rip-phil-niekro-mlb-pitcher/929029.md?page=2)