# Ripping CDs from Library **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935 "2012-10-16T22:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/21 "2012-10-17T18:47:16Z")
I’ve found myself reluctant over the past few years to purchase albums without giving them a good listen first. Too many times I’ve taken the plunge and bought albums by artists I like – even some of my favorites – only to discover that whatever magic got me hooked on their older material just isn’t there in the new release. So, yes. I will check out CDs from the library and listen to them before deciding to buy them, or just purchase those few tracks I liked. Over the years I’ve also gone back and purchased legally (almost) all of the tracks and albums that I downloaded like an addict in Napster’s glory days. Guilty conscience. This can be particularly tricky with classical music, as there are literally hundreds of recordings out there of the more popular pieces, and if the file you downloaded didn’t provide info regarding the specific ensemble/orchestra, conductor, soloists, date, etc., you might just be stuck. Fortunately, the iphone app Shazam has made great strides in adding classical music to its searchable catalog. This finally made it possible (though still not easy) to track down a singularly spellbinding recording of my favorite opera duet (_Au fond du temple saint_ from Bizet’s _The Pearlfishers_). Ultimately, i-Tunes didn’t have it for sale but based on Shazam’s identification I bought the whole damned CD from Amazon. I’ve rarely listened to anything on it other than the one track, but in this case it was worth it, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/22 "2012-10-17T19:07:46Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > They own the physical CD. They do not own the music recorded on the CD. Hence, they cannot legally give permission to copy it (and neither can you). This. It’s amazing how many people utterly fail to grasp this simple distinction. Owning a copy of an original work is not the same as owning the work itself. (At least, not legally or morally. Thanks to digital technology, in practice it is exactly the same, hence all the problems.) ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/23 "2012-10-18T08:46:10Z")
> [@Modevo](#): > > In theory, couldn’t I just borrow any music cd’s from the library, rip the songs onto my pc, and then transfer them to my iPhone? Lather, rinse repeat? Or is that illegal if it is possible? Yup, without a problem, it is illegal but who the hell is going to find out. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/24 "2012-10-18T13:14:34Z")
As a WAG, it’s legal provided you delete the music when you return the CD. You are borrowing and temporarily possess the CD with the right to listen to the music. What hoops you have to jump through to accomplish that is probably a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/25 "2012-10-18T16:06:40Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Librarian here. > > So so so very illegal. Most likely also specifically against the rules attached to the library card you signed up for. > > I’m not saying anything else. Has anyone ever been prosecuted for ripping songs from CD’s checked out of a library? Sodomy was illegal in a lot of states until 2003…just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/26 "2012-10-18T17:36:34Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Has anyone ever been prosecuted for ripping songs from CD’s checked out of a library? > > Sodomy was illegal in a lot of states until 2003…just sayin’. The OP was asking whether it was illegal, not whether anyone had been prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/27 "2012-10-18T18:41:58Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > The OP was asking whether it was illegal, not whether anyone had been prosecuted. I wasn’t responding to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/28 "2012-10-18T20:42:13Z")
I don’t believe it is actually illegal to copy music. You can be \*sued \*for copyright violation, but not arrested or prosecuted. Copyright violation is not theft. It is a different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/29 "2012-10-18T20:49:13Z")
It always amazes me how in some people’s minds breaking the law doesn’t count if you don’t get caught. Not just when it comes to music piracy but all kinds of things. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/30 "2012-10-18T21:39:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t believe it is actually illegal to copy music. You can be \*sued \*for copyright violation, but not arrested or prosecuted. You can be if the music you copy in a 180 day period is worth more than $1000. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/31 "2012-10-18T21:54:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It always amazes me how in some people’s minds breaking the law doesn’t count if you don’t get caught. Not just when it comes to music piracy but all kinds of things. It always amazes me how in some people’s minds breaking the law is always wrong, even if the law doesn’t make sense. There’s a law against smoking pot. That doesn’t make it immoral to smoke pot. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/32 "2012-10-18T21:57:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It always amazes me how in some people’s minds breaking the law is always wrong, even if the law doesn’t make sense. There’s a law against smoking pot. That doesn’t make it immoral to smoke pot. Glad to amaze you! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![lizzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/da6949/32.png) [@lizzie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizzie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/33 "2015-11-07T04:31:44Z")
Tell me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it’s Illegal if you delete it off your computer and phone once you returned the item. I borrow audio-books from the library and I like to listen to them as I work out and it’s a lot of space to bring my walk-men and the CD case so before I go to the gym I rip them and put them on my phone and when I’m done with those tracks I delete it off my phone… that’s not illegal if your still borrowing the material, right? ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/34 "2015-11-07T15:01:36Z")
> [@lizzie](#): > > Tell me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it’s Illegal if you delete it off your computer and phone once you returned the item. I borrow audio-books from the library and I like to listen to them as I work out and it’s a lot of space to bring my walk-men and the CD case so before I go to the gym I rip them and put them on my phone and when I’m done with those tracks I delete it off my phone… that’s not illegal if your still borrowing the material, right? You probably have a point there. When I borrow a book on tape from my library it will download automatically from their website to my computer. At that point I can listen to it on my computer or transfer it to my walkman. After three weeks the files auto delete off my computer. Then I get a message that says, “Please delete any additional copies you may have made for personal devices.” In the US you have a right to make a copy for your personal use on music you OWN. So I can copy my “Meet the Beatles,” CD but if I sell the physical CD to a used CD store, legally I must delete all copies of it, as I don’t own it. This is were a bit of confusion with DVDs and BluRays come in. You have a legal right to make a copy of them too, but you DO NOT have a right to circumvent the copyright protection. So if the DVD you own has drm (digital rights management) on it, that prevents the copying of the DVD, you kind of run into a catch 22. Note the above is for the United States and may not and probably doesn’t hold in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![lizzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/da6949/32.png) [@lizzie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizzie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/35 "2015-11-07T15:14:50Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Librarian here. > > So so so very illegal. Most likely also specifically against the rules attached to the library card you signed up for. > > I’m not saying anything else. Okay, so correct me if I’m wrong but if I delete the downloaded material before I return the physical CD back to library is it still illegal? for example I do this so that I can listen to audio-books at the gym or connect my phone to blue tooth (walk-men’s can’t connect to blue-tooth) but once i listened to the CD i delete it off my phone and computer. I just do it for the convenience of not carrying around a big Cd player and CD box… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/36 "2015-11-07T15:33:17Z")
> [@lizzie](#): > > Okay, so correct me if I’m wrong but if I delete the downloaded material before I return the physical CD back to library is it still illegal? for example I do this so that I can listen to audio-books at the gym or connect my phone to blue tooth (walk-men’s can’t connect to blue-tooth) but once i listened to the CD i delete it off my phone and computer. I just do it for the convenience of not carrying around a big Cd player and CD box… I don’t know whether or not it’s against the letter of the law (or of the rules of your particular library). If we were in the In My Humble Opinion forum, I’d say that I don’t think it’s unethical or contrary to the spirit of the law, and I’ve never heard of anyone getting in any trouble for it. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/37 "2015-11-07T15:33:30Z")
The illegal act is making an unathorized copy. If you make a copy and you do not have the right to do so, that is where the violation lies. What you do with the copy afterwards is largely irrelevant. If the library makes a copy on your computer, they presumably have permission from the copyright holder to do that. You do not. Now, whether such actions are moral or ethical or not, or whether they _should_ be legal, is a completely different question, and one on which I won’t bother to weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/38 "2015-11-07T16:37:58Z")
> [@lizzie](#): > > (walk-men’s can’t connect to blue-tooth) > [@](#): > > [The official plural of Walkman according to Sony is Walkman Personal Stereos, not \*Walkmans or \*Walkmen.](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25840/irregular-plurals-leathermans-or-leathermen) Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/39 "2015-11-07T16:58:30Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Maybe the library gave him permission. It’s _their_ CD. If my friend wanted to borrow my CD and rip it up, I suppose I might give him permission, too. Nope. Copyright law doesn’t allow the library to give such permission. The library, like anyone else buying a CD or other copyrighted work, buys it knowing that. If you don’t like copyright law, we can have a debate about whether we should have copyright (which I’ll still win :D). But please don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935/40 "2015-11-07T16:59:35Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It always amazes me how in some people’s minds breaking the law is always wrong, even if the law doesn’t make sense. There’s a law against smoking pot. That doesn’t make it immoral to smoke pot. It is immoral to steal. Violating copyright is stealing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ripping-cds-from-library/637935.md?page=3)