# Rise of opioids decreasing profitability of opium poppy farming **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 23, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595 "2023-09-23T12:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/1 "2023-09-23T12:30:32Z")
I was wondering how the increased availability of opioids like fentanyl was affecting the illicit opiate market. I understand heroine has been completely replaced in some areas. Which suggests less demand for the raw ingredients for opiates. It turns out people study this: > **[The Last Harvest? From the US Fentanyl Boom to the Mexican Opium Crisis](https://jied.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/jied.45)** > > For decades, farmers in the most marginalised regions of Mexico have depended for survival on the illicit cultivation of opium poppy for the US heroin market. In 2017 they could earn up to 20,000 pesos ($950–$1,050 dollars) per kilo of opium, which... The article focuses on Mexico, which I didn’t realize had substantial poppy cultivation. I’ve read a lot more news about poppies in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/2 "2023-09-23T13:07:18Z")
> [@](#): > > For decades, farmers in the most marginalised regions of Mexico have depended for survival on the illicit cultivation of opium poppy for the US heroin market. In 2017 they could earn up to 20,000 pesos ($950–$1,050 dollars) per kilo of opium, which channelled around 19 billion pesos ($1 billion dollars) into the country’s poorest communities, sustaining regional economies, religious ceremonies, and intra-community relations while stemming out-migration to Mexican cities and the US. With the recent upsurge in fentanyl use in the US, however, the demand for Mexican heroin has fallen sharply, meaning that farmers are now being paid around 6000 to 8000 pesos ($315–415 dollars) per kilo of raw opium. Thus the total money being paid to opium producing villages has dropped to an unprecedented low of 7 billion pesos ($370 million dollars). Interesting. I did a risky Google and fentanyl is made from precursor chemicals and not poppies. It’s killed the business. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/3 "2023-09-23T14:10:41Z")
As I understand it, opiates are poppy derivatives and opioids are not, but they operate by the same mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/4 "2023-09-23T14:15:15Z")
Related story: there’s increasing pressure on marijuana growers due to [competition from synthetic cannabinoids](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-01-23/thc-o-vs-delta-8-synthetic-pot-brings-new-competition-to-cannabis#xj4y7vzkg), made from hemp. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/5 "2023-09-23T14:18:33Z")
Yes. A synthetic version of the same molecule ultimately made from simple substances. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/6 "2023-09-23T14:30:01Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > A synthetic version of the same molecule To this chemist, that means the exact same atoms and bonds, just from different precursors, e.g., [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ja027882h](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ja027882h) . Which isn’t what something like fentanyl is. Looks like, per the Wikipedia article, all opiates are opioids, so I should have specified synthetic opioids. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/7 "2023-09-23T15:22:02Z")
I don’t understand the difference. I did some searching on how fentanyl is made but it quickly got too complicated for me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/8 "2023-09-24T15:04:27Z")
Synthetic opioids can be made without any chemicals derived from poppies. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/9 "2023-09-24T15:09:39Z")
That’s exactly what I said earlier, or meant to say. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/10 "2023-09-24T15:33:32Z")
Just not necessarily the same molecule. You can make synthetic or semisynthetic morphine, or engineer microbes to poop it out, and you’ll have the same molecule you get from poppy. But Fentanyl is an entirely different molecule, made from non-poppy starting materials, that also acts in opioid receptors to produce a similar effect. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Opiates_v_opioids.png/1024px-Opiates_v_opioids.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Opiates_v_opioids.png/1024px-Opiates_v_opioids.png) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/11 "2023-09-24T15:34:11Z")
Well, they are different molecules from the natural opioids, just molecules that trigger the same receptors in our nerves and brains. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/12 "2023-09-24T16:02:41Z")
Thanks for the explanations. I get it now. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rise-of-opioids-decreasing-profitability-of-opium-poppy-farming/990595/13 "2023-09-27T14:07:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Related story: there’s increasing pressure on marijuana growers due to [competition from synthetic cannabinoids](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-01-23/thc-o-vs-delta-8-synthetic-pot-brings-new-competition-to-cannabis#xj4y7vzkg), made from hemp. Thanks for sharing. Looks like industrial hemp can have a lot of other cannabinoids (primarily CBD if I’m interpreting correctly) that can be extracted and converted to psychoactive cannabinoids. CBD to THC (various isomers) is a relatively straightforward freshman organic chemistry reaction that I’ll not describe here. I’m assuming growing hemp is less of a legal hassle.