# rjung, drag your one trick ass in here. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638 "2003-12-17T22:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/61 "2003-12-19T00:47:24Z")
I’m confused. So what made **rjung** ’s post a “crackpot” idea was the part about the wink and nod being _deliberate_? **Airman Doors, USAF** , you are willing to believe that Glaspie was ambiguous when she was asked by Saddam if we would have an issue with him invading Kuwait, but the idea that the ambiguity was deliberate (or actually, simply _asking_ about the _possibility_ it was deliberate) causes such outrage? Man, I realize this might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but what a coffee-stirring pissy straw this was. **rjung** , if your guilty of anything it is of being a wishy-washy liberal. 😉 I can’t imagine the amount of spittle spewing that would have occurred had you claimed the “wink and nod was deliberate” as a fact. But it could have been worse. I wouldn’t be surprised if merely mentioning the Glaspie meeting taking place was met with howls of indignation by the public in general (Hello, **Skillet38**!). ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/62 "2003-12-19T01:19:54Z")
No, what it was was the fact that at NO time did Bush 41 EVER announce any intention to invade Iraq. At no time did the coalition forces EVER invade Iraq. Therefore, for you people to say that his allusion was towards Bush 41 is completely disingenuous. If Bush 41 had any intention of invading Iraq he could have done so, and probably would have. It’s not like there were any forces arrayed against him all the way to Baghdad. No, I see it as an allusion to Bush 41 setting up a scenario that his son just happened to cash in on. And that’s total, unmitigated bullshit. If that’s not what he meant, if he was seriously referring to Bush 41, then he’s the stupidest son of a bitch alive because IT NEVER HAPPENED. Bush 41 never invaded, thus completely negating the argument that he set himself up with an opportunity for an invasion. Period. So which is it? Is **rjung** a bullshit artist, or is he a total idiot? And that’s what I’m so worked up about. He’s more than willing to call **Brutus** or **Scylla** an idiot, but he either won’t recognize or is unwilling to admit that his drive-by posts are statements made of total lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/63 "2003-12-19T02:16:07Z")
Yes, an allusion _you_ saw, but no one else in that thread (AFAIC tell) saw and an allusion to which rjung replied: > [@](#): > > “I never said I believed it, Doors. Merely pointing out the possibility.” I don’t know. The rest of that thread remained civil and an interesting read, despite the touchy subject matter. IMO, a level-headed response or request for clarification on your part could have added to the thread’s value as an alternate point of view in that debate. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/64 "2003-12-19T03:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skillet38 \* > **That this type of crackpot bullshit is being (admittedly half-heartedly) defended speaks volumns about the makeup of these boards.** And who better to judge than the person who suggested [cocaine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=4332269#post4332269) as an answer to “What gives women the best orgasm?” or who gets a woody at the though of Paris Hilton being [fisted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=4277949#post4277949)? And this just from the first of 13 pages of posts. Sorry for the hijack. Couldn’t pass it up plus it lightens the mood. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/65 "2003-12-19T03:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > …No, what it was was the fact that at NO time did Bush 41 EVER announce any intention to invade Iraq. _At no time did the coalition forces EVER invade Iraq._ Therefore, for you people to say that his allusion was towards Bush 41 is completely disingenuous. If Bush 41 had any intention of invading Iraq he could have done so, and probably would have. (emphasis added in befuddlement) Huh? Whaaaaa? 'Cause I disinctly remember this bald guy using a pointer at a bunch of maps with all these arrows and things all over it. I thought they called it “Iraq”. You lost me on that last turn, podjo. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/66 "2003-12-19T05:49:48Z")
— I can honestly admit that I am simple, things for me tend to be black and white. I’m coming around to the gray area, but for me that’s like unlearning 25 years worth of stuff. I face everything head on, with the sincere belief that anything worth doing is worth doing 100%, and everything else is wrong-headed and stupid. So it’s safe to say that coming here has been a learning experience. **Airman Doors** is an addition to the classroom, but needs some help with his irony skills. ----- Cool. So I have it from you that as long as I include some form of proviso I can say whatever I want with impunity? If so, thank you for the Get Out Of Jail Free card you just gave me, elucidator. Let’s try it out: Perhaps it IS true that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster. Perhaps there are WMDs in Iraq. Maybe, just maybe, Bush is the best President we’ve ever had. No-no-no-no-no. You’re suppose to speculate using _questions_. For example, Is it _possible_ that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster? _Could it be the case_ that there are WMDs in Iraq? _Is it not conceivable_ that Bush is the best President we’ve ever had?\* ---- So which is it? Is rjung a bullshit artist, or is he a total idiot? Neither, sez I, but, judging from your quote (which I did not link to) **rjung** was just bullshitting us. Hey, at least he labeled it as speculation, at least implicitly. — Oh, and rjung, that rainbowing of my screenname was very clever. I get the implication, and unfortunately I can’t keep myself from rising to the bait. Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the effort you went to, and it will be returned at my earliest convenience. Excellent work, **Airman**. I’m seeing some real improvement here. - (No, yes and no) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/67 "2003-12-19T05:50:37Z")
Well, I’m back. **Airman** , only two small points this time. 1. Coalition forces did indeed penetrate Southern Iraq. I don’t know how aware you were of news or politics at the time; please believe me when I say that it was a major shock to everyone that coalition forces did not proceed to Baghdad and, among other things, depose Hussein. That was expected, and didn’t happen. 2. At the time you linked to the other thread in your OP, the context in that thread was entirely about Gulf War I. That’s what leads to my interpretation. Given your interpretation, your conclusion is valid. I just think you’re wrong, that’s all. Nothing personal. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/68 "2003-12-19T08:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > Because maybe, just maybe, I slept with your girlfriend, and maybe I mean it and maybe I don’t, and any way that you respond will be wrong so I can call you a jerk too. Wee, this game is fun, isn’t it? I can play the amibguous insult game too, see? Ass. Was that really necessary? You’re pitting the guy because he posted a theory that you don’t agree with? WTF? > [@](#): > > If only I were still a Bush fan, or a Republican, county. I’m not. I’m actually an independent who will not vote for Bush in 2004. Conservative? I plead guilty to that, although I’m more centric than anything else anymore. Why is it that right-wingers always call themselves “centrists”? Airman, you make Rush look like a hippie. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/69 "2003-12-19T13:56:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Well, have at it. At least one of us will have the opportunity to learn something here, since **rjung** shows no interest in doing so. > > \*\* I sent them an email- they said the would look into it, but they were to busy corrupting America’s youth and promoting Hillary Clinton for President in 08 to get you. So I guess you’re safe. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/70 "2003-12-19T14:38:09Z")
Saw this story today and thought of this thread: > [@](#): > > Donald H. Rumsfeld went to Baghdad in March 1984 with instructions to deliver a private message about weapons of mass destruction: that the United States’ public criticism of Iraq for using chemical weapons would not derail Washington’s attempts to forge a better relationship, according to newly declassified documents. > > Rumsfeld, then President Ronald Reagan’s special Middle East envoy, was urged to tell Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz that the U.S. statement on chemical weapons, or CW, “was made strictly out of our strong opposition to the use of lethal and incapacitating CW, wherever it occurs,” according to a cable to Rumsfeld from then-Secretary of State George P. Shultz. > > The statement, the cable said, was not intended to imply a shift in policy, and the U.S. desire “to improve bilateral relations, at a pace of Iraq’s choosing,” remained “undiminished.” “This message bears reinforcing during your discussions.” Oops, that’s not what Rumsfled was claiming he said: > [@](#): > > When details of Rumsfeld’s December trip came to light last year, the defense secretary told CNN that he had “cautioned” Saddam Hussein about the use of chemical weapons, an account that was at odds with the declassified State Department notes of his 90-minute meeting, which did not mention such a caution. Later, a Pentagon spokesman said Rumsfeld raised the issue not with Hussein, but with Aziz. Hmmm. What do you think **Airman**? [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13558-2003Dec18.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13558-2003Dec18.html) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/71 "2003-12-19T15:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by This Year’s Model \* > Obviously, there’s something between you two that I’ve never picked up on till now. Just being Mr. Oblivious, I guess. That doesn’t really matter to me. As I’ve said before, I don’t get it either – I mean, I might disagree with **Airman Doors** on various topics, but at least he’s not as flat-out clueless as some of the SDMB Conservatives are ( **Brutus** keeps coming to mind for some reason). I certainly don’t go out of my way to annoy him, but he seems to have some sort of fixation on me that I can’t comprehend. Again, something for him and his therapist to work out, I guess. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by El Gui_ > Man, I realize this might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but what a coffee-stirring pissy straw this was. Well, this whole pitting is rather limp-wristed, ainnit? I’m pretty sure we’re still deficient in the number of profanities needed for a proper pitting. > [@](#): > > rjung, if your guilty of anything it is of being a wishy-washy liberal. 😉 Probably, especially since I don’t vote a straight-lib ideaological ticket. I mean, I have no problems with the death penalty (under certain circumstances) and gun ownership, which is automatic rejection from the Die-Hard Lefty Liberal Club, last time I checked the bylaws. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by flowbark_ > ---- So which is it? Is rjung a bullshit artist, or is he a total idiot? > > Neither, sez I, but, judging from your quote (which I did not link to) rjung was just bullshitting us. Hey, at least he labeled it as speculation, at least implicitly. Hey, never discount the idiot option, especially if it’s Monday morning and my blood-to-caffeine ratio is not yet at 1:1. 😉 For whatever it’s worth, I’m not a subtle poster – my idea of subtle is a cream pie in the face. If I _believe_ George Bush Sr. wanted to set up Saddam for a fall, I would have written that, in so many words. If, on the other hand, I’m only _wondering_ if that’s the case, then I’ll word it as a question, because _I don’t know._ Maybe **Airman Doors** just doesn’t like my posting style because he thinks there’s more there than what’s there, and when I tell him there isn’t, he thinks I’m lying. Go figure. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF_ > Oh, and rjung, that rainbowing of my screenname was very clever. I get the implication, and unfortunately I can’t keep myself from rising to the bait. Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the effort you went to, and it will be returned at my earliest convenience. Hey, whatever floats your Twinkie, _bubbalah._ I gotta say, though, those fancy rainbow-color tricks only _look_ easy – in reality, they’re a major pain in the _tuckus_ to set up… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/72 "2003-12-19T15:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > **Why is it that right-wingers always call themselves “centrists”?** It’s my opinion that everyone wants to believe that they are centrists, because they are obviously a moderate, level-headed individual. There’s no way they should be compared to that “right-wing facist” or that “liberal hippy.” My dad is so far to the right that it sometimes scares me a bit. But he considers himself to be a centrist. Why? Because he took an online quiz which labeled him a centrist. And he is always the first person to question any online cite I have with, “Well, if it’s on the Internet it _must_ be true.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/73 "2003-12-19T18:17:49Z")
Gads I got to stop posting drunk. I’ll make an attempt to clarify my comments so I don’t appear to be a “complete” idiot. I was not leaping to ADUSAF’s defense. I was trying to say that compared to the majority of grunts I know, he is down right moderate in his opinions. This gave me the impression that rjung considers the vast majority of our servicemen to be knuckle dragging, right wing brutes. I had just learned that day that two of my customers (one army one marine) were leaving in January for one year tours in Irak. Both are officers and men of the highest calibre and integrity, despite the fact their politics are slightly right of Limbaugh. I guess I had a chip on my shoulder. I did not mean to imply that because rjung worked in the defense industry his opinions were more legitimate. I was retracting my call of bullshit that he knew anyone in the service. I now return you to your (rather civilised) flame war. Oh and calling someone Idiot in the pit isn’t hatefull it’s SOP, corpse feltcher, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/74 "2003-12-19T19:09:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by This Year’s Model \* > \*\*Well, I’m back. > > **Airman** , only two small points this time. > > 1. Coalition forces did indeed penetrate Southern Iraq. I don’t know how aware you were of news or politics at the time; please believe me when I say that it was a major shock to everyone that coalition forces did not proceed to Baghdad and, among other things, depose Hussein. That was expected, and didn’t happen. > > 2. At the time you linked to the other thread in your OP, the context in that thread was entirely about Gulf War I. That’s what leads to my interpretation. Given your interpretation, your conclusion is valid. I just think you’re wrong, that’s all. Nothing personal. \*\* Yes we **did** penetrate Southern Iraq. There’s a big difference between penetrate, for purposes of getting in behind an enemy and **invading** which is what you do prior to conquest. Being that I was there, I can say for certain that we, as soldiers, **knew** that our purpose was **not** to proceed to Baghdad. We were told this daily for months. We now return to our usual pointless debate between the hippie liberals and the right-wing fascists. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/75 "2003-12-19T19:20:45Z")
I’m afraid that distinction in lost on my feeble civilian mentality. I still tend to think a massive incursion of military force into another country is an invasion. And please be advised, if you find our discussions tiresome, that you are under no obligation whatsoever to participate. Peace on you. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/76 "2003-12-19T19:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*What do you think **Airman**? > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13558-2003Dec18.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13558-2003Dec18.html) \*\* I think that in 1984 I was 8, and as such had no idea that anything of the sort was happening. Now that I do, the word “hypocrite” comes to mind. But what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638/77 "2003-12-19T21:11:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*I’m afraid that distinction in lost on my feeble civilian mentality. I still tend to think a massive incursion of military force into another country is an invasion. And please be advised, if you find our discussions tiresome, that you are under no obligation whatsoever to participate. > > Peace on you. \*\* My point in saying “tiresome” was a feeble joke but whatever. You can “tend to think” whatever you want but the fact remains that we did **not** “invade” Iraq in the terms you seem to mean. At least we didn’t during Desert Storm. And peace right back atcha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rjung-drag-your-one-trick-ass-in-here/219638.md?page=3)