# RNC attendee: 'This is how we feed animals.' **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071 "2012-08-29T20:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/181 "2012-09-03T08:12:35Z")
> [@lance strongarm](#): > > Now you’re saying I shouldn’t complain about it (on behalf of those who were accused). False equivalence. Rogerbox knows the motives of his own comments and actions, we can only impute them for the perpetrators in question, based on the context. As it stands, there are pretty significant [second order signifiers](http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/020/162/104/trimmed/20162533_24880104_trimmed.jpg) to the actions in question. Do you think [this](http://www.allenhuntshow.com/Home/Images/HomeBody/Barack-Obama-08-Curious-George-Marietta-Bar-TShirt.jpg) is a racist image? More so than [this](http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/bush-chimp.jpg)? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/182 "2012-09-03T12:25:53Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > The peanut throwers were obviously racist. Racism is bad. Claiming that racist people are not bad (racist) is defending them. > > I had never really realized that dog whistles work three ways instead of just two: > > 1. Racist people hear the code words and know they are supported by the whistler > 2. Non-racist people hear the words and don’t pick up the racist context, whistler suffers no ill effects > 3. Non-Racist/Racist people (either) hear the words and argue that we can’t be absolutely, positively sure they are racist because the slimy dog whistler used weasel words and code words. Thus racists should always get away with their racism unless they are burning a cross in a front yard. > > edit: Oh wait the cross burners are just celebrating their Southern Christian heritage! We can’t know FOR SURE they are racist. You think you’re joking, but in the closed zombie thread in the pit, someone actually argued that a guy who threw around “fat nigger bitch” as an insult might not actually be racist in his heart. So no, there’s pretty much no level of racism that some pretending-to-be-fair-minded white person somewhere will not defend as maybe not actually REALLY racist. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/183 "2012-09-03T15:44:01Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > False equivalence. Rogerbox knows the motives of his own comments and actions, we can only impute them for the perpetrators in question, based on the context. As it stands, there are pretty significant [second order signifiers](http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/020/162/104/trimmed/20162533_24880104_trimmed.jpg) to the actions in question. > > Do you think [this](http://www.allenhuntshow.com/Home/Images/HomeBody/Barack-Obama-08-Curious-George-Marietta-Bar-TShirt.jpg) is a racist image? > > More so than [this](http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/bush-chimp.jpg)? > > If so, why? Why because George Bush is not a descendant of Ham according to the Bible, but Obama is. When you have a Biblical justification for allowing slavery, allowing people to be considered sub-human animals, then segregation and all the things that follow, eg; don’t swim in a white man’s pool, don’t drink from a white man’s drinking fountain, don’t eat in the same restaurant, don’t go to the white man’s convention is not only normal but according to God’s will. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/184 "2012-09-03T16:29:50Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > According to the eyewitness there is absolutely no doubt as to what this was. I just find it rather sad that Roberta has to prove her victimization beyond a scintilla of doubt. Obviously this is why some who are victims of racism hate to talk about it. She didn’t want to grant other interviews. Not only is it humilitating to endure, but people would rather disbelieve it than to entertain the notion that racist bullies exist. > Who wants to be humilitated and be labelled a liar? Who is Roberta? Aren’t we talking about Patricia Carroll? No doubt it would be sad if Ms. Carroll had to prove anything, but as far as I can tell, **nobody** has asked her to. Certainly not in this thread. Did I miss where someone said her account was unreliable? Or that racist bullies don’t exist? Or that she is a liar? Or that the peanut-throwers aren’t complete idiot troglodytes\* deserving of punishment? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You think you’re joking, but in the closed zombie thread in the pit, someone actually argued that a guy who threw around “fat nigger bitch” as an insult might not actually be racist in his heart. So no, there’s pretty much no level of racism that some pretending-to-be-fair-minded white person somewhere will not defend as maybe not actually REALLY racist. Well I’s sure _someone_ would, but it is a dumb thing to do. Racist behavior can be judged as such completely separate from what’s “in the [perpetrator’s] heart.” It looks like we’ll never know, but if you track down these guys and ask, I’m guessing they’d swear they’d never had a racist thought in their lives. They “don’t see race.” They come from a predominantly black state. They are Christians and Jesus says love thy neighbor. And any number of other things that people with bias always say to explain why they have no bias. But even if they really, truly, believe this, it is the actions that matter. And most importantly, how those actions are perceived by the target. Like I said in my first post, the strongest argument for this incident being racist is not the specifics of the attack, but how Ms Carroll felt about it, though the actions themselves certainly leaned in that direction as well. \*With due apologies to troglodytes everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/185 "2012-09-03T17:16:33Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It is a shame it doesn’t go further as Roberta wanted to drop it, but the two older white men are deplorable and should be held to account. See, out of this whole thread, this is the part I don’t get. If she wants to let sleeping dogs lie, why can’t we? She was the injured party. It appears that she realizes her dignity only increases by these assholes running and hiding, no matter what their motivation is or was, and she’s already won. Being a (probably racist) asshat isn’t usually against the law unless a party wants to press charges, or someone is sent to the hospital. I’m pretty sure they won’t be invited back to the RNC for fear of causing more incidents. If you just want to go find some racists to look down your nose at, we can go find a couple before lunchtime. It’s pretty easy. I drove by a Confederate flag with a Nazi eagle emblazoned in the center flying on the side of route 180 week before last. It’s a pretty sure bet the folks living there are fucking white supremacists, a whole lot more threatening in my book than these jokers. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/186 "2012-09-03T19:13:35Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You think you’re joking, but in the closed zombie thread in the pit, someone actually argued that a guy who threw around “fat nigger bitch” as an insult might not actually be racist in his heart. So no, there’s pretty much no level of racism that some pretending-to-be-fair-minded white person somewhere will not defend as maybe not actually REALLY racist. I wasn’t joking, I really don’t understand this phenomenon…well I do when it comes from our resident racist white conservatives on the SDMB because conservatives have a vested interest in lying and saying that there isn’t systematic racism in the US still so they can keep locking up the people they hate at disproportionate rates and eliminate all forms of affirmitive action, but when non-conservatives do it it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to be putting their heads in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/187 "2012-09-03T19:31:44Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > See, out of this whole thread, this is the part I don’t get. If she wants to let sleeping dogs lie, why can’t we? She was the injured party. It appears that she realizes her dignity only increases by these assholes running and hiding, no matter what their motivation is or was, and she’s already won. > > Being a (probably racist) asshat isn’t usually against the law unless a party wants to press charges, or someone is sent to the hospital. I’m pretty sure they won’t be invited back to the RNC for fear of causing more incidents. If you just want to go find some racists to look down your nose at, we can go find a couple before lunchtime. It’s pretty easy. I drove by a Confederate flag with a Nazi eagle emblazoned in the center flying on the side of route 180 week before last. It’s a pretty sure bet the folks living there are fucking white supremacists, a whole lot more threatening in my book than these jokers. You don’t know that these elderly men aren’t white supremists. All I know is you have to lance a boil instead letting it fester. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/188 "2012-09-03T19:33:55Z")
> [@Rachael\_Rage](#): > > Who is Roberta? Aren’t we talking about Patricia Carroll? > > No doubt it would be sad if Ms. Carroll had to prove anything, but as far as I can tell, **nobody** has asked her to. Certainly not in this thread. Did I miss where someone said her account was unreliable? Or that racist bullies don’t exist? Or that she is a liar? Or that the peanut-throwers aren’t complete idiot troglodytes\* deserving of punishment? > > Well I’s sure _someone_ would, but it is a dumb thing to do. Racist behavior can be judged as such completely separate from what’s “in the [perpetrator’s] heart.” It looks like we’ll never know, but if you track down these guys and ask, I’m guessing they’d swear they’d never had a racist thought in their lives. They “don’t see race.” They come from a predominantly black state. They are Christians and Jesus says love thy neighbor. And any number of other things that people with bias always say to explain why they have no bias. > > But even if they really, truly, believe this, it is the actions that matter. And most importantly, how those actions are perceived by the target. Like I said in my first post, the strongest argument for this incident being racist is not the specifics of the attack, but how Ms Carroll felt about it, though the actions themselves certainly leaned in that direction as well. > > \*With due apologies to troglodytes everywhere. Sorry, I got her name incorrect, but my thought on the subject remains the sameapparently she did not want this to be a distraction, but a lot of people according to the report was very upset by it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/189 "2012-09-03T19:59:01Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I am not giving anyone a “bye” when the facts are presented here. I say anyone who calls another human being an animal is implying they are sub-human. When the person being bullied is black, that takes on a whole other layer of bullying. It’s racism, and I gave the historical biblical association upthread. Again, when your slur needs a long discussion of biblical history to prove it’s a slur, it’s not a slur. Real slurs are instantly recognized as slurs. This was an insult. It MAY have been racist. We can’t be positive. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/190 "2012-09-03T20:00:38Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You think you’re joking, but in the closed zombie thread in the pit, someone actually argued that a guy who threw around “fat nigger bitch” as an insult might not actually be racist in his heart. So no, there’s pretty much no level of racism that some pretending-to-be-fair-minded white person somewhere will not defend as maybe not actually REALLY racist. But I wouldn’t argue that. “Nigger” is undeniably racist (though even that word is now often used in non-racist ways). “Animal” is not undeniably racist. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/191 "2012-09-03T20:03:34Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > False equivalence. Rogerbox knows the motives of his own comments and actions, we can only impute them for the perpetrators in question, based on the context. As it stands, there are pretty significant [second order signifiers](http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/020/162/104/trimmed/20162533_24880104_trimmed.jpg) to the actions in question. Not significant enough for me to declare them guilty. > [@](#): > > Do you think [this](http://www.allenhuntshow.com/Home/Images/HomeBody/Barack-Obama-08-Curious-George-Marietta-Bar-TShirt.jpg) is a racist image? Very likely. Though it reminds me of this: [![](https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1059/4730857391_a734dcd13d_z.jpg) ](https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1059/4730857391_a734dcd13d_z.jpg) > [@](#): > > More so than [this](http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/bush-chimp.jpg)? Of course. If so, why? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/192 "2012-09-03T20:04:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So, we’ve gone from being annoyed that others are raising the concept of innocent until proven guilty in regards to this discussion, to tarring and feathering those who raise even the merest scintilla of doubt about the motivations of these morons. And that kind of proves my point. Now it’s a witch hunt, where anyone who dares express even the slightest doubt that someone is a witch is simply accused of also being a witch. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/193 "2012-09-03T20:06:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What you say is only true in theory, not in practice. People don’t accidentally call black people animals. People don’t accidentally only throw peanuts only on black people. If it was just about the “lamestream media,” why didn’t they do it to the others that were there representing other members of said media? Do people call white people animals and throw peanuts at them, on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/194 "2012-09-03T20:29:27Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Again, when your slur needs a long discussion of biblical history to prove it’s a slur, it’s not a slur. Real slurs are instantly recognized as slurs. This was an insult. It MAY have been racist. We can’t be positive. You need to read the full account of the event, and then you need to understand the propaganda from white supremists. They ABSOLUTELY know the biblical references that justifies their racism. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/195 "2012-09-03T20:33:59Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > You need to read the full account of the event, and then you need to understand the propaganda from white supremists. They ABSOLUTELY know the biblical references that justifies their racism. That’s a circular argument though - you don’t know if the guys who called this lady an animal were white supremacists! In fact, perhaps they had no idea that their insult was racist because they weren’t racists and hadn’t learned all that racist stuff. We just don’t know. And of course I’ve read a full account of the event. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/196 "2012-09-03T20:35:48Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Why because George Bush is not a descendant of Ham according to the Bible, but Obama is. When you have a Biblical justification for allowing slavery, allowing people to be considered sub-human animals, then segregation and all the things that follow, eg; don’t swim in a white man’s pool, don’t drink from a white man’s drinking fountain, don’t eat in the same restaurant, don’t go to the white man’s convention is not only normal but according to God’s will. You’ve done a great job of proving that racism exists. Thanks. Doesn’t prove that this particular incident was racist. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/197 "2012-09-03T21:15:50Z")
The incident was PROBABLY, nearly indubitably, racist, based on the history of this country and the evidence presented. A lawyer may not be able to satisfy the “beyond a shadow of a doubt” rule given juries based on the minimal information we are working with, but you continue to insist that the teensiest sliver of a possibility that there was no racial intent on the part of the men means we should dismiss the incident as not-so-youthful hijinks. You have been presented with the evidence that a black woman was targeted and that there is a centuries-old meme in this country that African Americans are animals. Based on that a reasonable person can safely assume that the incident has a racist basis. To continually not do so betrays a willful ignorance if not a desire to make us give up talking to you, making it seem to you that you have won. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/198 "2012-09-03T21:17:48Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The incident was PROBABLY…racist… Yep. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/199 "2012-09-03T21:35:05Z")
Well, we have that. After four pages I lost track of exactly what you believe. Maybe we should have a poll. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071/200 "2012-09-03T22:26:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Well, we have that. After four pages I lost track of exactly what you believe. Maybe we should have a poll. I made it very clear what I believe, despite all the crap thrown at me. Ignore the crap and read what I say, and you’ll have no trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-attendee-this-is-how-we-feed-animals/633071.md?page=11)