# RNC: McCain's speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353 "2004-08-31T02:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/21 "2004-08-31T04:46:09Z")
> [@](#): > > We did the best we could to communicate a message of calm and hope, as we stood on the pavement seeing a massive cloud rushing through the cavernous streets of lower Manhattan. > > Our people were so brave in their response. At the time, we believed we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. > > Spontaneously, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and said to Bernie, “Thank God George Bush is our President.” [Giuliani speech trancript](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,130670,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/22 "2004-08-31T04:49:40Z")
Is there a word for a moment of intense and extreme uncertainty when you don’t know for sure if you’re about to laugh or puke? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/23 "2004-08-31T04:54:41Z")
There are only two possibilities with regard to Guiliani’s insipid glurge about the Police Commissioner. Either he’s making the story up or he’s telling the truth. If the former is the case then he’s just a garden variety liar like any other politician. But if the latter is true (and he actually said that) then he’s a much larger douche than we ever suspected. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/24 "2004-08-31T04:58:27Z")
Rudy the “Douche” Giuliani. Has a certain ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/25 "2004-08-31T05:08:50Z")
I was listening to NPR coverage of the RNC on the way home. If 9/11 hadn’t happened, what in the hell would these guys have to talk about? I mean, it was relentless. Tom Ashbrook would ask a question about the enonomy. Well, there was the 9/11 attacks, which caused the loss of a million jobs. How about Iraq? On 9/11 we needed a strong leader, and Bush has continued to show his strength in fighting terrorism overseas. OK, uh, howsabout the question of gay marriage? The Republican party is a big tent and can accomodate a diversity of views, and as we saw on 9/11, the President… I mean, for _fuck’s sake_, does every discussion have to turn into a riff about 9/11? I mean, it was a horrific event where people were mindlessly slaughtered. It was about as profane an act as has happened in my lifetime, probably. It was NOT a rallying cry for any American party. It was not a campaign slogan. I know we’ve got to be tough on terror and all that, but _enough_ already. Just listening to it for a half hour, and I started to feel really uncomfortable, like the GOP had suddenly found a new raison d’etre, a call to arms, a rousing battle cry, and it was if they were reveling in it as opposed to lamenting it. Like they owned it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/26 "2004-08-31T05:09:42Z")
They could rewrite _Irma la Douce_, put McCain in Jack Lemmon’s part. _Rudy la Douche_ Have your people call my people, we’ll do lunch… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/27 "2004-08-31T05:16:44Z")
Whats funny about this is how out of touch most of you are. Both speeches, but especially Giuliani’s (a.k.a. the ‘Douche’) are going to strike a cord with people…and not just the ‘moron’s’ but with a lot of those pesky undecideds. At least thats my take on it, having closely followed the DNC and seeing EVERY speech at their convention. But not one of you can listen objectively and analyze unemotionally…to know AND understand your ‘enemy’. And to my mind thats just stupid. You knee jerk off on tangents and then rally round with kumbya to each other. Well, I suppose we’ll all see in October…but I’m now unsure if this is going to be the Kerry lockup I thought it would be just a few days ago. And because many of you are letting your emotions rule you, it could come as quite a shock in October if more than just ‘morons’ are paying attention, or if more than just ‘morons’ spark to the ‘message’ the Republicans are dishing out…and the Democrats aren’t. At any rate it looks like this thread was a waste of my time if I wanted objective analysis and thoughts on the various speeches (which we had mostly bi-partisan on the DNC speeches I thought). Maybe I’ll be surprised by later posters, or maybe by other threads about speeches later in the RNC…but I’m not holding my breath. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/28 "2004-08-31T05:21:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > …but I’m not holding my breath. > > -XT Why not? 'sfun! ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/29 "2004-08-31T05:25:23Z")
Aren’t you a little too emotional? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/30 "2004-08-31T05:35:55Z")
Me?? lol, sure I am. ROFLMAO… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/31 "2004-08-31T05:45:28Z")
I didn’t catch the whole thing, I only saw excerpts of the speeches, but McCain’s performance was a disappointment. Here’s a Republican who is worthy of respect, a guy who earned admiration and approval from more than just morons and party members, yet for this occasion he transmogrified into a wishy-washy endorser of the man who ran smear campaigns against him four years ago. And he didn’t seem very passionate about it either, perhaps his conscience was torturing him. As for Giuliani, he is talented, intelligent, no-bullshit, efficient, etc., as his tenure in NYC clearly demonstrated. Unfortunately he is also a shameless sell-out for party politics. He sold out when he recommended that idiot Bloomberg to succeed him as mayor and he sold out with the low-brow histrionics of his convention speech. **Xtisme** , you are right about some of us being out of touch with the public – too much exposure to that sort of stupidity makes me physically sick for one – but come on, you saw this convention with your own eyes: this is not politics, this is organized religion. Those today were not political speeches, they were sermons. The majority of the crowd didn’t seem party political delegates, they had the look of an audience hungry for unsubstantiated confirmation of their faith (Bush is great, praise the Bush!) – or at least the ones I saw on camera, I suppose it’s a big convention and the worst morons would tend to be towards the front. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/32 "2004-08-31T05:50:43Z")
> [@Abe](#): > > Xtisme, you are right about some of us being out of touch with the public – too much exposure to that sort of stupidity makes me physically sick for one – but come on, you saw this convention with your own eyes: this is not politics, this is organized religion. Those today were not political speeches, they were sermons. The majority of the crowd didn’t seem party political delegates, they had the look of an audience hungry for unsubstantiated confirmation of their faith (Bush is great, praise the Bush!) – or at least the ones I saw on camera, I suppose it’s a big convention and the worst morons would tend to be towards the front. Oh, I agree Abe…it was all a show. The quasi-religious bullshit ALWAYS annoys the fuck out of me…its one of the things that originally caused me to break with the Republicans years ago. But then again, so was the DNC in its own way (not religious, but it was all a big show, all smoke and mirrors)…its all relative. However, what I was hoping for was some hard hitting but OBJECTIVE looks at the RNC and the speeches, like what we had in the DNC threads. Because like in the DNC, there IS a message here, and it IS being put out…and more than just ‘morons’ are listening to it (just like more than just ‘morons’ listened to the DNC message). So far in this thread its been nearly content free bashing and name calling. I really had hoped for more from this board. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/33 "2004-08-31T06:23:56Z")
Well, hell, if you’re gonna insist on cogent analysis and probity… I think its the Plan. You know, you’ve probably seen it. We get together, and we make the Plan. And then events mutate, as they always do, and the Plan don’t look so good anymore. But the Plan doesn’t look _so_ bad that _everyone_ says “Shit! We gotta change the Plan!” So everybody kinda goes along, even though they’re getting more and more uneasy about the Plan. The Pubbies planned to run on 9/11 a _looooong_ time ago, they even made a point of setting their convention date close, they were gonna milk this for all it was worth, maybe have GeeDubya anointed on Ground Zero. They probably figured they could modify the Plan slightly to include the thousands upon thousands of returning heroes at the Support Our President and Re-Elect Our Troops Rally. But it turns out they’re still…kinda busy. So they went with the original Plan because…it was the Plan. And you gotta have a plan. Even when you already know its not a particularly _good_ plan. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/34 "2004-08-31T06:31:27Z")
I didn’t watch any of the convention coverage – which is fair, since I didn’t watch any of the DNC either – but I heard that the networks gave short shrift to tonight’s speeches because they want to devote an extra hour to Schwarzenegger’s speech Tuesday night. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The only interesting moment was the Moore moment and I think MM took some piss out of the Pubs by laughing and raising the “loser” sign. If he’d have appeared angry or offended it would have been more effective. Moore’s too smart for that. 😉 Can’t wait to read his writeup in _USA Today._ > [@xtisme](#): > > Whats funny about this is how out of touch most of you are. You consider yourself a “moderate.” 'nuff said. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pkd88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@pkd88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkd88)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/35 "2004-08-31T06:39:33Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Whats funny about this is how out of touch most of you are. > …snip… > At any rate it looks like this thread was a waste of my time if I wanted objective analysis and thoughts on the various speeches (which we had mostly bi-partisan on the DNC speeches I thought). Maybe I’ll be surprised by later posters, or maybe by other threads about speeches later in the RNC…but I’m not holding my breath. -XT Perhaps the thread is a waste of time to you. I am not sure what you expected, but people are responding as you asked. The way I look at it, this convention should offer a clear view of why Republicans should stick with G.W. Bush, convince lost or undecided Republicans to come back, and show the folks who are going for Kerry why they should change their minds. It needs to convince me that the last 4 years have been positive and the next 4 will be even better. Sorry, there was no substance in it to help me make up my mind. I want the Republican party to explain to me why I should mark the first term of G.W. Bush down as a success. This will help me decide if he deserves a vote for a 2nd term. Instead, I got this 9/11 thing that just kept reminding me that he was President during the attacks. I do not see 9/11 as a positive in his first term. I want the Republican party to explain to me why I should give my vote to G.W. Bush for a 2nd term. Instead, I got this 9/11 thing that just kept reminding me that he was President during the attacks. I do not see 9/11 as a positive in his first term. \*\*Turn ons: \*\* None yet, maybe soon. I did miss the beginning of it though. (CNN) \*\*Turn offs: \*\* I saw WWE (wrestling) type “cheap pops” when Giuliani’s urged them to chant the home cities name. Good for NY for pulling out of this disaster. The chant made me sad there was no content. Did they do this at the DNC and I miss it? Mayor of NY thanking god G.W. Bush was president, was absolutley unbelievable. The debates will be much more important to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/36 "2004-08-31T06:40:18Z")
I saw Giulliani’s speech, but not McCain’s, although I saw lots of interview with McCain afterwards. I think **XT** has a good point about the folks here being out of touch. Neither convention is really about substance, they’re about marketing their guy, especially to the undecideds. Giulliani’s speech should work well in that respect. Bush gets the highest marks when people are asked about his handling of the “War on Terror”, so it make sense to pound on that message as much as possible. I know everyone raved about Barak Obama, but I missed his speech, so I don’t have a reference for how that might play with the undecides. And wait for Arnold. He’s really going to get the juices flowing. Coming out of the convention, I expect the Pubbies to unleash some pretty potent attacks on Kerry (both directly from Bush and indirectly for the 527s). As long as things don’t get appreciably worse in Iraq, I think Bush has a very good change of parleying this strategy into a win in November. And as long as Bush doesn’t make a disaster out of the debates… ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/37 "2004-08-31T07:18:24Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Oh, I agree Abe…it was all a show. The quasi-religious bullshit ALWAYS annoys the fuck out of me…its one of the things that originally caused me to break with the Republicans years ago. > > But then again, so was the DNC in its own way (not religious, but it was all a big show, all smoke and mirrors)…its all relative. Yes, but that is not the topic here. Personally, I found it offensive that Kerry showed up with a salute and the bombastic “I’m reporting for duty” – rather lame and low-brow – but there was much good material from the democrats, not just Mr. Obama but also Gore’s passionate yet coherent speech. Overall I didn’t think the DNC was as intellectually bankrupt as the RNC promises to be after these two execrable speeches from McCain and Giuliani (two of the most promising exponents!). In addition to my analogy of organized religion, I think **pkd88** is right to bring up staged wrestling to describe the show, the atmosphere, and the crowd. > [@](#): > > However, what I was hoping for was some hard hitting but OBJECTIVE looks at the RNC and the speeches, like what we had in the DNC threads. Because like in the DNC, there IS a message here, and it IS being put out…and more than just ‘morons’ are listening to it (just like more than just ‘morons’ listened to the DNC message). So far in this thread its been nearly content free bashing and name calling. I really had hoped for more from this board. The point is that the messages were _so_ bad – was there anything in those vacuous collections of lowest common denominator memes that _could_ reasonably be discussed as presented? McCain and Giuliani are both interesting, talented people who sold out to the party line – particularly disappointing in the case of McCain. Shameless marketing zombies, issuing simple repeated assertions punctuated by faux emotional cues to which brainwashed worshippers respond. And a good time is had by all. I hope the tone and content of the convention improves. It certainly can’t get much worse, if all that two of the smartest Republicans out there can provide us with is this pre-digested pap. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/38 "2004-08-31T07:56:26Z")
I saw most of the McCain speech. I found myself drifting as he spoke. I turned it off when I realized I wasn’t paying attention anymore (I’ll watch the Tivo’ed later) He looked sick to me. Has his health been bad or something. It seemed like it was all he could do to just stand there. Too bad if he’s unwell. For the most part I like the guy. I thought the Michael Moore stab showed a real sign of weakness and fear in their behalf. Moore on the other hand, laughing at the whole thing, I thought was pretty damn funny. You call out a guy in front of a packed Garden and he giggles back at you… wow. Bad call on the RNC side. I watched some of Mr Rudy speak. Not really impressed either. The “good thing for Bush” quote seemed 150.56% CRAP! How can the people writing this stuff think anyone is going to buy that? Here’s the one major difference I noticed between the crowd on the DNC compared to the RNC. The RNC crowd looks,… well,… unhappy. They clap and cheer just fine but watching their faces as someone is just talking and they have this look like “someone just ran over my dog but I have to be here because I’ve already spent the money”. Not a very happy looking bunch IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/39 "2004-08-31T11:05:15Z")
Is it possible that you guys could elect one or two dozen fewer spokespersons so that threads like these at least _seem_ like debates? Where is the righteous indignation that arises in other Great Debates threads when the OP opens with nothing more than: “Here’s the topic… discuss!”? Can anyone offer any reasonable justification for spending upwards of $200 million to produce either one of these “conventions”? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353/40 "2004-08-31T12:20:15Z")
**Xtisme** , I’m not sure that anyone other than the hardcore watch either convention, if you want to get at the real truth. Joe Sixpack, Soccer Mom, NASCAR Dad, whoever, is going to get the condensed highlights, at best, from USA Today, network news, NPR in the morning, Clear Channel Radio. I watched parts of it last night, flipping back and forth from CNN (covering the convention) to CNN Headline (the two are back to back on my cable). I was also re-reading the second half of _The Price of Loyalty_, Ron Suskind’s book on former Secretary of Treasury Paul O’Neill. It was a very political evening for me, but I needed to get up very early today so I just saw most of McCain’s speech. The main soundbite I heard on the radio this morning was the bit about “disingenuous filmmakers”. I wish I’d seen Ron Silver’s speech, particularly as I most recently have seen him playing a Dick Morris sort of character (minus the sleeze) on _The West Wing_. I agree that this convention will probably bump Bush’s numbers simply because we’re going to get fed a lot of positive spin on Bush by the “Liberal Media” over the next week. Then I hope the Dems will respond and the race gets into full gear. As far as the RNC I think the decorum, or lack thereof, of the protestors in NYC will have a bigger impact on the public than the actual convention. I doubt many protests will influence swing voters postively (hey, those folks are RIGHT about Iraq!) but if things get ugly it could provoke people to steer clear of Kerry (jeez, how can I support a guy that all of these morons are supporting). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rnc-mccains-speech/262353.md?page=3)