# RO alert: British tabloids sink to an all-time shit-sucking low **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850 "2011-07-04T22:13:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/1 "2011-07-04T22:13:50Z")
In March 2002, a 13-year-old girl, Millie Dowler, was abducted and murdered. [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Milly_Dowler). Her body was not found until September. During the time she was missing, friends and relatives left hopeful messages on her cellphone’s voicemail. Also during that time, a private investigator hired by the News of the World hacked her voicemail and listened to all of the messages. So many messages were left on her voicemail that it became full. The investigator then started deleting messages he’d already listened to. This led the family to think that Milly was still accessing her voicemail, and raised hopes that she was still alive. [Story](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world). The editor of the paper at the time, Rebekah Brooks (née Wade), released a [statement](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/10/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-metropolitan-police) in 2009: > [@](#): > > Wade also accused the Guardian, BBC, Channel 4, ITN and Sky News of “either deliberately or recklessly” combining references to the Information Commissioner’s report about the use of private investigators by newspaper publishers, including Guardian Media Group, which also publishes [MediaGuardian.co.uk](http://MediaGuardian.co.uk), with “specific and very limited evidence” from the police investigation of illegal phone interceptions by Glen Mulcaire and former News of the World royal editor Clive Goodman. Glenn Mulcaire is the name of the investigator hired by News of the World, whose 11,000 pages of notes were revealed by police to the Guardian to contain targeting of the Dowler family. What fucking twisted version of humanity are these people? Oh yeah, News International. Of which Brooks was recently appointed Chief Executive. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/2 "2011-07-04T22:34:23Z")
This is extremely serious, how many other cases have they been involved with? Deleting messages is in effect, deleting evidence, and of course, we have no way of knowing if this affected the path of this, or any other investigation. Mobile phone records are used extensively in criminal investigations and provide a lot of circumstantial evidence, now we are in a situation where a defence can posit that this has been planted, or defence critical material has been deleted. How about hacking reveals some material that could have been used as evidence, but a tip off gives time for the miscreants to delete it? When I say this is serious, I mean it. This is slowly unravelling and getting worse and worse, hacking the accounts of roylaty or celebs is serious enough, but this is demonstrating that mobile phishing is also possible and probably very likely - I would not be surprised to see some very sticky fingers dipping into the financial accounts of various folk. New of the Screws may not be party to this phishing, they probably buy in the skills, however we can’t be sure just how criminal those hired ahnds are either. I have always wondered why the Met have not persued this investigation into phone hacking far more vigorously. One wonders if that has not been some sort of collabaration to get around phone tapping regulations and judicial oversight - some of these phone hacks and incompetant investigations are just too damn convenient. There has to be some sort of payback.It seems to me that every revalation has had to be dragged out without the assistance of the Met, who then seem to play at a form of catch-up investigation and they never seem to find anything - its a fertile ground for conspiracy theories. Mine personal theory is that the Met and various phone hackers have been working together, tipping each other off on various aspects and it is not in the interests of any of these parties, including the press to have this properly scrutinised. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/3 "2011-07-04T22:41:35Z")
I thought they sunk to an all-time low when [_The Sun_ reported “The Truth” after the Hillsborough Disaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun_newspaper). This is what tabloids do. They sensationalize things, make stuff up, and generally scandalize everything they can, largely because the public can’t get enough of it. They know their audience better than any other form of media and they pander to it. This is nothing more than business as usual, and that fact will be borne out by the zero drop in readership. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/4 "2011-07-04T22:46:52Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > This is what tabloids do. They sensationalize things, make stuff up, and generally scandalize everything they can, largely because the public can’t get enough of it. They know their audience better than any other form of media and they pander to it. This is nothing more than business as usual, and that fact will be borne out by the zero drop in readership. Hacking into cell phones and deleting voicemails that were potentially evidence seems to be a bit beyond your run-of-the-mill sensation and scandal, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/5 "2011-07-04T22:53:20Z")
You’re probably right. Still, libeling people and doing shady things is their millieu and has been for as long as I’ve been alive. If nothing else this is simply the next logical step in their descent into hell. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/6 "2011-07-04T23:09:18Z")
They should have had their license revoked when it was revealed they were hacking into the phone accounts of members of the government and Royal Family, clearly a matter of national security. This just seals the deal. The damned paper should be shut down and every member of the editorial staff imprisoned for conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/7 "2011-07-04T23:12:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I thought they sunk to an all-time low when [_The Sun_ reported “The Truth” after the Hillsborough Disaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun_newspaper). > > This is what tabloids do. They sensationalize things, make stuff up, and generally scandalize everything they can, largely because the public can’t get enough of it. They know their audience better than any other form of media and they pander to it. This is nothing more than business as usual, and that fact will be borne out by the zero drop in readership. This is at least as unethical though, and absolutely illegal. I hope serious jail time is on the cards. The readership of the Sun did drop enormously in Liverpool after their malicious lies. It probably won’t change this time though, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/8 "2011-07-04T23:17:35Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > They should have had their license revoked when it was revealed they were hacking into the phone accounts of members of the government and Royal Family, clearly a matter of national security. This just seals the deal. The damned paper should be shut down and every member of the editorial staff imprisoned for conspiracy. Wow, you can shut down papers in the UK for stuff like this? And newspapers need licenses to operate? If I’m interpreting that right, it’s way different than how things are in my country (the United States). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/9 "2011-07-04T23:22:55Z")
BTW, my understanding of how they “hacked” the voicemail boxes is that the people who owned the mobile phones had not changed their passwords from the default. Is that correct? (I’m not trying to excuse what the papers did, but instead am trying to understand how they did it.) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/10 "2011-07-04T23:29:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > What fucking twisted version of humanity are these people? > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > They sensationalize things, make stuff up, and generally scandalize everything they can, largely because the public can’t get enough of it. The English tabloid buying public are far too substantial a group to consider them to be merely a twisted version of humanity. They are humanity. > [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Wow, you can shut down papers in the UK for stuff like this? And newspapers need licenses to operate? If I’m interpreting that right, it’s way different than how things are in my country (the United States). No they don’t need licenses to operate. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/11 "2011-07-04T23:31:09Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Wow, you can shut down papers in the UK for stuff like this? And newspapers need licenses to operate? If I’m interpreting that right, it’s way different than how things are in my country (the United States). No, you can’t. Which is a damn shame. Newspapers don’t need licenses, but individual journalists have their press passes. This isn’t a thread about how great and free America is. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/12 "2011-07-04T23:47:31Z")
Newspapers might not need a license to operate but I presume that PI’s do and this one should have his license yanked so fast that he spins his ass right into a jailcell. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/13 "2011-07-05T01:10:13Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > No, you can’t. Which is a damn shame. Newspapers don’t need licenses, but individual journalists have their press passes. This isn’t a thread about how great and free America is. I think the question was a fair question asking for clarification of the applicable law, not an attempt at flag-waving. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/14 "2011-07-05T01:12:34Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > No, you can’t. Which is a damn shame. Newspapers don’t need licenses, but individual journalists have their press passes. This isn’t a thread about how great and free America is. So, what you’re saying is, the Queen has final editorial authority over every word published in the British press? That’s pretty messed up. Maybe you should try freedom of the press, like we have in AMERICA!!! USA! USA! USA! ETA: Thanks, **Ascenray**. The above is sarcasm directed toward **SciFiSam** , in case anyone misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/15 "2011-07-05T03:33:46Z")
Be pointless jailing the Private Investigator. I think that he is in jail already from the linked account. What the tabloids and their agents did was beyond the pale. However- the police in charge of the investigation need their arses kicked for not securing the information. If this voicemail was so important they should have had access to it immediately with their own password plus the messages should not have been left only on that one device. They should have been transferred to a more permanent medium. And cuachtemoc, you’re acting like a child. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/16 "2011-07-05T05:35:14Z")
Something I don’t get, what was the private investigator hired by News of the World trying to do, find Millie? How was listening to her voice mails going to help? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/17 "2011-07-05T05:47:03Z")
And here is why nothing will come of this, other than some hideously insincere apologies, and possibly a couple of token scape goats: > **[David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Co flock to pay homage at Rupert Murdoch's...](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/jun/20/david-cameron-rupert-murdoch-party?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3788)** > > Staff at the News International bash fear the fall-out of the phone-hacking scandal. By James Robinson > [@](#): > > At News International’s summer party in London on Thursday night, guests including David and Samantha Cameron drank Moet & Chandon champagne and ate oysters. Labour leader Ed Miliband and shadow chancellor Ed Balls sheltered from the inclement weather in a giant canopy at the Orangery in Kensington, along with other attendees, but by the time a dramatic storm broke after 9pm, and rain lashed down on the guests, the party was already thinning out. Sorry to state the obvious, but Murdoch effectively controls the country, and no-one is really going to risk upsetting him too much. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/18 "2011-07-05T06:04:04Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Something I don’t get, what was the private investigator hired by News of the World trying to do, find Millie? How was listening to her voice mails going to help? Hell no, he was digging for dirt, or at the least information that would generate even more sensational headlines. > [@Dewey Finn](#): > > BTW, my understanding of how they “hacked” the voicemail boxes is that the people who owned the mobile phones had not changed their passwords from the default. Is that correct? (I’m not trying to excuse what the papers did, but instead am trying to understand how they did it.) I believe so. According to what I’ve heard, the modus operandum was to get hold of the number, then hack #1 calls it. When it’s ringing or picks up, hack #2 calls it as well and gets straight to the voicemail front page, then uses the default password or tests other simple number combinations to access the voicemailbox. The inaction of the police in this matter is extremely worrying. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/19 "2011-07-05T07:56:32Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The inaction of the police in this matter is extremely worrying. > **[Sun editor admits paying police officers for stories](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/mar/12/sun.pressandpublishing)** > > The editor of the Sun yesterday admitted paying police officers for information. By Matt Wells > [@](#): > > The editor of the Sun yesterday admitted paying police officers for information. > > Rebekah Wade, giving evidence to a committee of MPs, also said journalists were entitled to use bugging devices and other covert methods if there was a strong public interest in the story under investigation. > > It was the first time that the editor of a tabloid newspaper has publicly admitted using such techniques, and raised questions about journalistic standards at a time when press self-regulation is under close scrutiny… > > …Ms Wade made her admission in response to a question from Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda. “We have paid the police for information in the past,” she said. The MP asked if it would happen in the future; Andy Coulson, editor of the News of the World, interjected and said: “We have always operated within the code and within the law.” > > Mr Bryant said he believed it was illegal for police to be paid for information. Mr Coulson replied: “As I said, we have always operated within the code and within the law.” ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850/20 "2011-07-05T08:13:19Z")
Some choice quotes from the Guardian article: > [@\[Guardian](#): > > ([Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail was hacked by News of the World | UK news | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world))]But the journalists at the News of the World then encountered a problem. Milly’s voicemail box filled up and would accept no more messages. Apparently thirsty for more information from more voicemails, **the paper intervened – and deleted the messages that had been left in the first few days after her disappearance**. According to one source, this had a devastating effect: when her friends and family called again and discovered that her voicemail had been cleared, they concluded that this must have been done by Milly herself and, therefore, that she must still be alive. But she was not. **The interference created false hope and extra agony for those who were misled by it.** > > The Dowler family then granted an exclusive interview to the News of the World **in which they talked about their hope, quite unaware that it had been falsely kindled by the newspaper’s own intervention**. Sally Dowler told the paper: “If Milly walked through the door, I don’t think we’d be able to speak. We’d just weep tears of joy and give her a great big hug.” > [@](#): > > The paper made little effort to conceal the hacking from its readers. On 14 April 2002 it published a story about a woman allegedly pretending to be Milly Dowler who had applied for a job with a recruitment agency: “It is thought the hoaxer even gave the agency Milly’s real mobile number … the agency used the number to contact Milly when a job vacancy arose and left a message on her voicemail … it was on March 27, six days after Milly went missing, that the employment agency appears to have phoned her mobile.” > [@](#): > > The newspaper also made no effort to conceal its activity from Surrey police. After it had hacked the message from the recruitment agency on Milly’s phone, the paper informed police about it. > > It was Surrey detectives who established that the call was not intended for Milly Dowler. At the time, Surrey police suspected that phones belonging to detectives and to Milly’s parents also were being targeted. > > One of those who was involved in the original inquiry said: “We’d arrange landline calls. We didn’t trust our mobiles.” And on police inaction… > [@](#): > > However, they took no action against the News of the World, partly because their main focus was to find the missing schoolgirl and partly because this was only one example of tabloid misbehaviour. As one source close to the inquiry put it: “There was a hell of a lot of dirty stuff going on.” …a quote which I suspect is both true, and a convenient rationalisation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-alert-british-tabloids-sink-to-an-all-time-shit-sucking-low/587850.md?page=2)