# RO: Doctor withholds HIV meds out of disapproval of patient's homosexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965 "2012-06-03T20:31:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/1 "2012-06-03T20:31:11Z")
I found out about [this story](http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm) via a couple of sites I sometimes look over. Now, the URL above seems to be the primary and sole (that I can tell from Google searching) source - nowhere else can I find anything about this lawsuit. But if it’s true, holy crap! I can’t see how the doctor involved can’t lose her license, especially since, if I’m reading the story right, the plaintiff’s doctor is an actual witness! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/2 "2012-06-03T20:41:18Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I found out about [this story](http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/01/47019.htm) via a couple of sites I sometimes look over. > > Now, the URL above seems to be the primary and sole (that I can tell from Google searching) source - nowhere else can I find anything about this lawsuit. But if it’s true, holy crap! I can’t see how the doctor involved can’t lose her license, especially since, if I’m reading the story right, the plaintiff’s doctor is an actual witness! I also couldn’t find another primary source for this story. Everyone talking about it seems to be going to back to the Courthouse News Service report you linked to. But I did find one blogger that says the linked article misspelled the doctor’s name. It’s Susan Borja not Susan Borga. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/3 "2012-06-03T21:23:26Z")
Holy shit! I can understand not dispensing meds that you think do immoral things, but I can’t understand withholding meds _from people_ that you think do immoral things! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/4 "2012-06-03T21:24:47Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Holy shit! I can understand not dispensing meds that you think do immoral things, but I can’t understand withholding meds _from people_ that you think do immoral things! Thats a really good way of putting it and I think what takes the RO level here to an 11. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/5 "2012-06-03T21:24:53Z")
Per the Trinitas website the name seems to be [Susan Borja](http://www.trinitashospital.org/physician_referral_detail.asp?ID=41). If she’s the same Susan V. Borja, listed at [these medical](http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-susan-borja-yktkt) [review sites](http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Susan_Borja.html), she’s not exactly earning many points for how she deals with patients. Obviously none of this may be proof for the allegations in the suit, but it’s certainly not doing anything to support the idea that these must be baseless allegations. In which case, once these charges are proven, the hospital (and the doctor, too) need to be hammered. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/6 "2012-06-03T21:35:27Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > If she’s the same Susan V. Borja, listed at [these medical](http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-susan-borja-yktkt) [review sites](http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Susan_Borja.html), she’s not exactly earning many points for how she deals with patients. > > Obviously none of this may be proof for the allegations in the suit, but it’s certainly not doing anything to support the idea that these must be baseless allegations. In which case, once these charges are proven, the hospital (and the doctor, too) need to be hammered. The second review cite you listed doesn’t seem to be from any of her actual patients-I think it’s made up from people who read the same article listed in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/7 "2012-06-03T21:37:33Z")
Hmm. Those last two links say that she practices “_adolescent and pediatric_ psychology.” Would she even BE in contact with an adult patient? I’m starting to be a LITTLE skeptical. Not that I’m entirely doubting it, but I would like to find another source for this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/8 "2012-06-03T22:55:28Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Hmm. Those last two links say that she practices “_adolescent and pediatric_ psychology.” Would she even BE in contact with an adult patient? I’m not a medical professional, but I think it’s common for doctors with a specialty to also do rotations as admitting physicians at the hospital they’re associated with. > [@Leaper](#): > > I’m starting to be a LITTLE skeptical. Not that I’m entirely doubting it, but I would like to find another source for this. There’s one thing that’s making me think there might be something to this. Simoes isn’t claiming that the only witnesses are himself and family members. He’s saying that Dr Borja made some of these statements to his regular doctor. It seems unlikely to me that Simoes would make a claim like this, which would be so easy to disprove, unless it’s generally true. It’s not just a “he said/she said” situation if there’s a neutral third party witness who can corroborate Simoes’ claims. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/9 "2012-06-03T23:40:48Z")
My therapist tells me that there are still counselors who believe that homosexuality is a disease to be cured. It’s 2012…not 1912. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/10 "2012-06-03T23:41:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I can’t see how the doctor involved can’t lose her license, especially since, if I’m reading the story right, the plaintiff’s doctor is an actual witness! As I (and others) have pointed out previously, if pharmacists can refuse birth control pills to women out of “conscience”, then a doctor being able to refuse a patient AIDS medication because they’re gay is a pretty logical extension of the principle. The doctor probably feels she has a perfect legal right to do what she is doing, given the precedent already set that a patient’s health and life are of no importance compared to their right wing “conscience”. My reaction to a story like this is therefore a shrug and a “well, what did people expect?” > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Holy shit! I can understand not dispensing meds that you think do immoral things, but I can’t understand withholding meds _from people_ that you think do immoral things! Again, that’s something pharmacists have been getting away with, by doing things like accepting prescriptions from women, then refusing to dispense the medicine and refusing to hand the prescription back so the woman can go elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/11 "2012-06-03T23:46:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As I (and others) have pointed out previously, if pharmacists can refuse birth control pills to women out of “conscience”, then a doctor being able to refuse a patient AIDS medication because they’re gay is a pretty logical extension of the principle. The doctor probably feels she has a perfect legal right to do what she is doing, given the precedent already set that a patient’s health and life are of no importance compared to their right wing “conscience”. My reaction to a story like this is therefore a shrug and a “well, what did people expect?” > Again, that’s something pharmacists have been getting away with, by doing things like accepting prescriptions from women, then refusing to dispense the medicine and refusing to hand the prescription back so the woman can go elsewhere. These jerks have no business being in the medical field if they’re going to act this way! :mad: they should dig ditches or something ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/12 "2012-06-03T23:46:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Again, that’s something pharmacists have been getting away with, by doing things like accepting prescriptions from women, then refusing to dispense the medicine and refusing to hand the prescription back so the woman can go elsewhere. Bejeezus, are people actually getting away with THAT too? The first part I can almost understand (but I really don’t like it). But the second part (keeping the prescription)?. Gawd damn. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/13 "2012-06-03T23:55:24Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Obviously none of this may be proof for the allegations in the suit, but it’s certainly not doing anything to support the idea that these must be baseless allegations. In which case, once these charges are proven, the hospital (and the doctor, too) need to be hammered. After 30 something years in practice, 9 reviews suddenly posted on June 2nd and 4 reviews suddenly posted on June 1st from don’t strike you as odd? Her only review before that, in 2010, was favorable. It’s not like a mental patient possibly wasn’t seeing things clearly or anything, right :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/14 "2012-06-03T23:59:12Z")
This is kind of a hard story to believe, frankly – but if it’s true, she absolutely should lose her license, forever. For a doctor to do this to a patient is simply unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/15 "2012-06-04T01:08:10Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > This is kind of a hard story to believe, frankly – but if it’s true, she absolutely should lose her license, forever. For a doctor to do this to a patient is simply unthinkable. I am very skeptical that not only the doctor but also the nurses would be conspiring against him because he’s gay. It’s possible that it might be true, and if it did really happen it’s awful, but I can also believe that if this is someone with mental health issues that his perception of things may be skewed and there’s more to the story than what he’s saying. I’ve worked on psych wards. Every psych ward I’ve worked on has had gay social workers and/or nurses. It’s typically a pretty liberal and gay-friendly environment. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/16 "2012-06-04T01:16:03Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I am very skeptical that not only the doctor but also the nurses would be conspiring against him because he’s gay. It’s possible that it might be true, and if it did really happen it’s awful, but I can also believe that if this is someone with mental health issues that his perception of things may be skewed and there’s more to the story than what he’s saying. > I’ve worked on psych wards. Every psych ward I’ve worked on has had gay social workers and/or nurses. It’s typically a pretty liberal and gay-friendly environment. This. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/17 "2012-06-04T01:52:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But the second part (keeping the prescription)?. Gawd damn. There have been a number of such cases. I believe it’s treated as theft, rather than a legitimate “conscientious” choice, but it has happened more than once. Anyway, this story is not that hard for me to believe, but it’s outrageous enough that I’m going to refrain from organizing a lynch mob until there’s clearer evidence for it. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/18 "2012-06-04T03:27:35Z")
I know someone who is off the list for a liver transplant because of his risky life style. He doesn’t drink, he doesn’t do drugs, he doesn’t even smoke pot or tobacco. His risky behavior is because he has sex with his long time (about 15 years) partner. My friend says he was told this to his face. I can’t even begin to tell you all how much this outrages me. This story might be made up, but it might be true. I will take outrage for 300. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/19 "2012-06-04T06:29:14Z")
It’s encouraging at least that, while some here are taking the doctor’s side in an innocent-until-proven-guilty sense, nobody is defending her actions **as alleged.** ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965/20 "2012-06-04T06:37:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s encouraging at least that, while some here are taking the doctor’s side in an innocent-until-proven-guilty sense, nobody is defending her actions **as alleged.** Man, it must be amazing to say something like this. And yet you straight people find it unremarkable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-doctor-withholds-hiv-meds-out-of-disapproval-of-patients-homosexuality/623965.md?page=2)