# RO: Glenn Beck compares Utøya murder victims to Hitler Youth
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 25, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311 "2011-07-25T21:12:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/101 "2011-07-26T15:55:21Z")
> [@Kolga](#):
>
> I’d like a citation for this claim, please.
> **[Politikk - TV2.no](https://www-tv2-no.translate.goog/politikk/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en)**
>
> TV 2 er Norges beste nettsted for nyheter, sport, underholdning, vær, tv-guide og video
I also read the same thing, that some of the victims thought it was some kind of theater reenactment of the conditions in Gaza (with the shooter playing the part of Israeli soldier). There is already a conspiracy theory that Mossad was behind the shooting.
---
### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/102 "2011-07-26T15:56:54Z")
> [@Chen019](#):
>
> I mean in terms of them enthusiastically thinking that through their participation they would make the world “a bit of a better place”. Also, it seems in Scandanavian politics that some views are just suppressed or marginalised - the idea of tolerant debate and open discussion is garbage.
Jesus Christ you really are scum. At least Beck has the decency to shout, cry and generally act crazy while spouting his shit.
---
### Author:  [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/103 "2011-07-26T16:04:00Z")
> [@Rune](#):
>
> [http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=\_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitisk.tv2.no%2Fnyheter%2Fst%25C3%25B8re-om-israel-palestina-konflikten-%25E2%2580%2593-okkupasjonen-ma-opph%25C3%25B8re-muren-ma-rives-og-det-ma-skje-na%2F](http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitisk.tv2.no%2Fnyheter%2Fst%25C3%25B8re-om-israel-palestina-konflikten-%25E2%2580%2593-okkupasjonen-ma-opph%25C3%25B8re-muren-ma-rives-og-det-ma-skje-na%2F)
>
> I also read the same thing, that some of the victims thought it was some kind of theater reenactment of the conditions in Gaza (with the shooter playing the part of Israeli soldier). There is already a conspiracy theory that Mossad was behind the shooting.
Is asking for a recognition of a Palestinian state automatically an anti-Israel rally? Can a person, or a party, want the recognition of a Palestinian state without automatically being anti-Israel?
I have a feeling that for some people, the answer is yes, but I’m unconvinced that all calls for a Palestinian state are automatically anti-Israel.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/104 "2011-07-26T16:11:39Z")
> [@Kolga](#):
>
> I’d like a citation for this claim, please.
> **[Politikk - TV2.no](https://www-tv2-no.translate.goog/politikk/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en)**
>
> TV 2 er Norges beste nettsted for nyheter, sport, underholdning, vær, tv-guide og video
Here’s the Google translation:
> [@](#):
>
> During the second day of Labour Youth League summer camp at Utøya got the Labour Party’s young hopefuls visit by Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store.
> Together with the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation correspondent Sidsel Wold and Norwegian People’s Aid Kirsten Belck-Olsen, discussed the Foreign Minister of the deadlock between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. As foreign minister arrived Utøya he was met with a demand from the AUF that Norway must recognize a Palestinian state.
>
> - The Palestinians must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now, said the Foreign Minister to cheers from the audience.
There was also a big banner which said “Boikott Israel.” I assume this means “Boycott Israel.”
---
### Author:  [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/105 "2011-07-26T16:16:00Z")
> [@Kolga](#):
>
> Is asking for a recognition of a Palestinian state automatically an anti-Israel rally? Can a person, or a party, want the recognition of a Palestinian state without automatically being anti-Israel?
>
> I have a feeling that for some people, the answer is yes, but I’m unconvinced that all calls for a Palestinian state are automatically anti-Israel.
I’d say calling for boycot of a nation (or anything else) is being anti. I’m not going to debate you on it though, as it doesn’t interest me.
---
### Author:  [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/106 "2011-07-26T16:25:15Z")
> [@Rune](#):
>
> I’d say calling for boycot of a nation (or anything else) is being anti. I’m not going to debate you on it though, as it doesn’t interest me.
I apologize if you thought I was looking for a debate rather than a discussion. This is something that I have been thinking about for a while.
In my mind, I have been putting it in terms of apartheid in South Africa. When people boycotted South Africa because they were anti-apartheid, were they anti-South African, or just anti-“the South African policy of apartheid”? When people want to boycott Israel because of Israeli policy regarding the Palestinian question, are they anti-Israel, or anti-“Israeli policy”? Can you disagree with a nation’s policies without being seen as (or without being) anti-that-nation?
In any event, again, it wasn’t my intention to argue, and I apologize for the hijack. Thank you and **brazil84** for the link.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/107 "2011-07-26T16:37:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Is asking for a recognition of a Palestinian state automatically an anti-Israel rally?
No it is not. Heck, burning an Israeli flag is not automatically anti-Israel. You have to look at the context in which these things happen.
In the case of a “Palestinian State,” it’s worth noting that essentially nobody in the West or in the Arab world called for a Palestinian State on the West Bank or Gaza when these areas were controlled by Jordan and Egypt respectively. Indeed, it was not until 50 or 60 years ago that the Arabs in these areas started referring to themselves as “Palestinians.” The Arabs could have easily set up a “Palestinian State” before 1967 but instead chose to prepare for an invasion of Jewish Israel.
Now that Israel controls the West Bank, there are calls for a “Palestinian State,” but if it’s really about self-determination and independence, why was it not until the Jews were in control that these calls started?
In addition, there are lots of groups of people which the Norwegians could choose to agitate for. For example, they could call for a Kurdish State; or a Basque State; or a Tibetan State; or a Chechen State. If you look at Wikipedia, you will see that there are literally hundreds of groups pushing to have their own states. Why are the Norwegians so obsessed the rights of one specific group which didn’t even see itself as a separate group until recently and is not distinctive in terms of language, culture, religion, or ethnicity?
If you look at the context, it becomes very clear that the problem is NOT that the Arabs lack a 23rd state. The problem is that the Jews do have a state.
So it’s reasonably obvious that it’s an anti-Israel anti-Jewish rally.
---
### Author:  [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/108 "2011-07-26T16:39:35Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> No it is not. Heck, burning an Israeli flag is not automatically anti-Israel. You have to look at the context in which these things happen.
>
> In the case of a “Palestinian State,” it’s worth noting that essentially nobody in the West or in the Arab world called for a Palestinian State on the West Bank or Gaza when these areas were controlled by Jordan and Egypt respectively. Indeed, it was not until 50 or 60 years ago that the Arabs in these areas started referring to themselves as “Palestinians.” The Arabs could have easily set up a “Palestinian State” before 1967 but instead chose to prepare for an invasion of Jewish Israel.
>
> Now that Israel controls the West Bank, there are calls for a “Palestinian State,” but if it’s really about self-determination and independence, why was it not until the Jews were in control that these calls started?
>
> In addition, there are lots of groups of people which the Norwegians could choose to agitate for. For example, they could call for a Kurdish State; or a Basque State; or a Tibetan State; or a Chechen State. If you look at Wikipedia, you will see that there are literally hundreds of groups pushing to have their own states. Why are the Norwegians so obsessed the rights of one specific group which didn’t even see itself as a separate group until recently and is not distinctive in terms of language, culture, religion, or ethnicity?
>
> If you look at the context, it becomes very clear that the problem is NOT that the Arabs lack a 23rd state. The problem is that the Jews do have a state.
>
> So it’s reasonably obvious that it’s an anti-Israel anti-Jewish rally.
By this logic, anyone calling for a Palestinian state for any reason is automatically anti-Semitic.
So, thanks for answering my question. Supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state is automatically anti-Israel and anti-Semitic.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/109 "2011-07-26T16:45:07Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> … The problem is that the Jews do have a state.
>
> So it’s reasonably obvious that it’s an anti-Israel anti-Jewish rally.
Do Christians have a state? How about Buddhists? Would you support an America that places the Christian symbol on its state flag, and demands that support of Christianity as a condition for full citizenship?
There is much to admire about Israel, but when she is wrong, she needs to be scolded. Can anyone argue that non-Jewish Israelis enjoy parity and equality with their Jewish fellow citizens?
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/110 "2011-07-26T16:55:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> By this logic, anyone calling for a Palestinian state for any reason is automatically anti-Semitic.
No, it depends on the context. For example, there might be someone out there who believes that every self-defined group should have its own state. There also may be people who are directly involved in the Arab/Israeli conflict who focus on this issue not out of obsession with Jews but simply because they have a personal stake in the conflict. For example, Lebanon might support the idea of a Palestinian state in the expectation that it will give them an opportunity to empty out their “refugee” camps.
---
### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/111 "2011-07-26T16:56:17Z")
Norway has troops in Afghanistan and Libya. they have been involved, with boots on the ground, in many military operations since WW2. They are not some peaceniks.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/112 "2011-07-26T17:00:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Do Christians have a state?
Lol, there are numerous states which are officially Christian.
> [@](#):
>
> How about Buddhists?
I don’t know.
> [@](#):
>
> Would you support an America that places the Christian symbol on its state flag, and demands that support of Christianity as a condition for full citizenship?
Absolutely. I’m not sure what your point is, but my answer is yes.
> [@](#):
>
> There is much to admire about Israel, but when she is wrong, she needs to be scolded
Agree, and the same is true of most countries on the Earth.
Now a question for you:
Do you think Israel should be held to the same standards as other countries, or higher standards? If you believe higher standards, then how much higher?
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/113 "2011-07-26T17:06:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> …Absolutely. I’m not sure what your point is, but my answer is yes…
Sorry, you totally lost me at that turn. You and I have no rational basis for discussion.
---
### Author:  [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/114 "2011-07-26T17:15:52Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> I think it’s a stretch to compare them to Hitler Youth. Still, they apparently had an anti-Israel rally a couple days earlier. Actually I heard somewhere that one of the victims thought at first that the attack was theater to demonstrate the mistreatment by Israelis of the people in Gaza.
>
> In my opinion, a good deal of the anti-Israel sentiment out there is just a mask for anti-Semitism.
>
> And no, I’m not saying that they deserved what they got.
So, having seen the rest of this discussion, your quote should have read:
“They’re not exactly Hitler Youth, but like the Hitler Youth, they want to boycott Israel.”
I dislike “boycott Israel” campaigns, I think the problems with (my imitation of) your position are pretty obvious.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/115 "2011-07-26T17:20:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Sorry, you totally lost me at that turn. You and I have no rational basis for discussion.
Again, I’m not sure what your point is. You asked me a question, I answered it.
Your argument seems to be that no country should have a preferred or state religion; therefore Israel is doing something wrong by being a “Jewish” state; therefore it is reasonable for these Norwegians to have an anti-Israel rally.
My response to your argument is (1) I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong for countries to have preferred religions or to put religious symbols on their flags; and (2) even if it is wrong to have such a preferred religion, it still doesn’t justify the singling out of Judaism.
Norway itself has a cross right on its flag. According to Wikipedia, the cross on Norway’s flag represents Christianity.
And again my question:
Do you think Israel should be held to the same standards as other countries, or higher standards? If you believe higher standards, then how much higher?
---
### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/116 "2011-07-26T17:25:10Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Do you think Israel should be held to the same standards as other countries, or higher standards? If you believe higher standards, then how much higher?
Can you clarify: which other countries do you mean?
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/117 "2011-07-26T17:26:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> They’re not exactly Hitler Youth, but like the Hitler Youth, they want to boycott Israel."
Well not exactly. Among other things, there was no Israel back during the days of the Hitler Youth.
I would put it more like this:
They’re not Hitler Youth, but like Hitler Youth, they were anti-Semitic.
---
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/118 "2011-07-26T17:28:24Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#):
>
> Can you clarify: which other countries do you mean?
I did not have any specific country in mind when I asked the question, but for sake of discussion let’s limit it to the 193 member states of the UN.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/119 "2011-07-26T17:32:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Well not exactly. Among other things, there was no Israel back during the days of the Hitler Youth.
>
> I would put it more like this:
>
> They’re not Hitler Youth, but like Hitler Youth, they were anti-Semitic.
You really are an idiot, aren’t you?
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/120 "2011-07-26T17:33:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Sorry, you totally lost me at that turn. You and I have no rational basis for discussion.
:mad: Come on, ya pussywimp, shake it off, we’re Dopers, we never let **that** stop us!
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311.md?page=5)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311.md?page=7)