# RO: Glenn Beck compares Utøya murder victims to Hitler Youth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311 "2011-07-25T21:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/161 "2011-07-26T20:11:58Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > btw. I’m honored, I think, that Beck made Geert Wilders Danish. Wonder why so many people confuse Denmark for the Netherlands. Can it be just because of the slight resemblance of Dutch and Danish? It’s because you two nations are providing the two wings of the effort to subdue the Frisian Menace! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/162 "2011-07-26T20:13:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Perhaps, but that’s a different question. You were analogizing incarceration of muggers to criticism of nations. Criticism of policies regarding incarceration of muggers does not really fit into your analogy. Then don’t bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/163 "2011-07-26T20:19:11Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Then don’t bring them up. I thought you were trying to fit it into your analogy. So I’m not sure what your point is. But you don’t seem to dispute that if muggers of Race X are consistently sentenced disproportionately more severely than muggers of Race Y, it’s reasonable to infer discriminatory animus. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/164 "2011-07-26T20:20:44Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Ok, I get it now. The Dutch are waging a nefarious international public relations campaign to associate all their embarrassing bits with Denmark, and no doubt steal our many glorious achievements as their own too. Shut up and hand me another gouda Danish. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/165 "2011-07-26T20:22:24Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t understand your point. Another lie. > [@brazil84](#): > > Either he is even-handed (which would be pretty unusual but it probably happens once in a while) or his criticism of Israel is disproportionate. What other possibilities are there? I suppose it’s possible that he criticizes Israel proportionately less than other countries. Whether Carter criticizes other countries **at all** (and he does) is irrelevant. His criticism of Israel would be disproportionate if it were out of proportion to **the facts on the ground in Israel.** Which it isn’t, and that makes him even-handed. And, no, there is nothing antisemitic about **singling out** Israel for criticism either – no more than it would have been anti-white for someone to focus criticism on Apartheid to the exclusion of injustices in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/166 "2011-07-26T20:27:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I thought you were trying to fit it into your analogy. > > So I’m not sure what your point is. But you don’t seem to dispute that if muggers of Race X are consistently sentenced disproportionately more severely than muggers of Race Y, it’s reasonable to infer discriminatory animus. My point was, and I repeat: > [@me](#): > > It should be quite obvious that criticism should be proportional to the severeness of object of the critique. You also quite obviously do not see that. I don’t really know how to make that any clearer. The next paragraph: > [@me](#): > > Arresting and jailing a mugger is not disproportional just because some other guy got away with it. Was mean to underscore the difference between proportionality and your mis-interpretation of the term. Take note of the first example sentence in this definition: [quote="WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn] "] ```auto proportional adj 1: properly related in size or degree or other measurable characteristics; usually followed by `to'; "the punishment ought to be proportional to the crime"; "earnings relative to production" [syn: {proportional}, {relative}] ``` [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/167 "2011-07-26T20:34:13Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’m glad your son is safe, flodnak. > > Can you tell some more, please, about the rose march? I don’t read Norwegian but those photos brought tears to my eyes. It seems like a beautiful tribute. I’m not at home right now - we’ve been visiting my parents and are still in the US - so I’m not sure of all the details. It was a demonstration and parade arranged, as I mentioned, in towns and cities all over Norway; the largest was, naturally enough, in Oslo. People were encouraged to bring roses or other flowers. Local leaders made speeches, local entertainers sang, but the important thing was that people came out and held their flowers up to show grief and unity. People were afterwards told to leave their flowers somewhere where they thought the flowers should be, and these photos show some of the places those who came to the Oslo march decided to leave theirs. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/168 "2011-07-26T20:39:51Z")
I would agree that, if you are a layperson (which Carter is not), it’s best not to only care about one injustice and completely ignore or downplay all others. However, there are almost two hundred countries on this planet, and injustices happen in every single one of them. We all have to focus our attention somewhere. Israel gets more heavily criticized in elsewhere in large part because the _Middle East_ gets more heavily covered by newsmedia than any other region on Earth. Hence, people tend to focus on Israel, perhaps more than it deserves. However, suggesting that we need to be “proportional” in the sense **brazil84** means is not just wrong — it’s impossible! Similarly, although there are certainly anti-Semites who criticize Israel disproportionately, not all (or probably even most of) those who disproportionately criticize Israel are anti-Semites. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/169 "2011-07-26T20:43:32Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Me. Aren’t you Faroese? (I know, technically Danish). ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/170 "2011-07-26T20:48:02Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Aren’t you Faroese? (I know, technically Danish). Half. I claim the nationality that wins me most points in a debate. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/171 "2011-07-26T20:57:33Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Was mean to underscore the difference between proportionality and your mis-interpretation of the term. I see your point now. When I talked about “disproportionate” criticism of Israel, I meant that Israel is criticized far more harshly than other countries which engage in similar or worse conduct. This should have been reasonably clear from the context. Moreover, it is very common to use the word “disproportionate” in this sense. Here is a definition I found: > [@](#): > > having or showing a difference that is not fair, reasonable, or expected : too large or too small in relation to something I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were not intentionally misinterpreting my post. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/172 "2011-07-26T21:03:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Another lie. Nonsense. > [@](#): > > Whether Carter criticizes other countries **at all** (and he does) is irrelevant. His criticism of Israel would be disproportionate if it were out of proportion to **the facts on the ground in Israel.** Which it isn’t, and that makes him even-handed. You seem to have an interesting definition of “even handed.” You seem to be saying that even if Carter regularly attacks Israel while ignoring far worse conduct if perpetrated by Saudi Arabia, he is being “even handed.” Do I understand you correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/173 "2011-07-26T21:07:10Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Half. I claim the nationality that wins me most points in a debate. Or in Scrabble, apparently 😉 > [@brazil84](#): > > When I talked about “disproportionate” criticism of Israel, I meant that Israel is criticized far more harshly than other countries which engage in similar or worse conduct. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/174 "2011-07-26T21:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Israel gets more heavily criticized in elsewhere in large part because the Middle East gets more heavily covered by newsmedia than any other region on Earth. That’s just not true. For example, most people have no idea that Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon brutally repressed the Palestinian Arabs living in those countries for decades now. As of a few years ago, a child born in Egypt to an Egyptian mother and a Pal Arab father was still not entitled to Egyptian citizenship. There is a whole list of professions which are denied to Pal Arabs living in Lebanon (and they are all denied Lebanese citizenship). And so on. > [@](#): > > However, suggesting that we need to be “proportional” in the sense brazil84 means is not just wrong — it’s impossible! I’m didn’t say that things need to be proportional, simply that the disproportionate criticism of Israel is largely due to anti-Semitism. > [@](#): > > Similarly, although there are certainly anti-Semites who criticize Israel disproportionately, not all (or probably even most of) those who disproportionately criticize Israel are anti-Semites. Well what explains it then? What explains the fact that there have been more UN Human Rights Council condemnations of Israel than all other countries combined? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/175 "2011-07-26T21:21:49Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Prove it. I will try, but first you need to represent to me that you are seriously skeptical of the claim that Israel receives disproportionate criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/176 "2011-07-26T21:25:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I see your point now. > > When I talked about “disproportionate” criticism of Israel, I meant that Israel is criticized far more harshly than other countries which engage in similar or worse conduct. > > This should have been reasonably clear from the context. It was quite clear. Which is why I was complaining about it. Using “disproportionate” in that way is misleading. I think you just might not be intentionally misleading here, but you do seem to have a very selective reading of these kinds of criticisms to say the least. > [@](#): > > Moreover, it is very common to use the word “disproportionate” in this sense. > > Here is a definition I found: > > > [@](#): > > > > having or showing a difference that is not fair, reasonable, or expected : too large or too small in relation to something Note that your definition states “in relation to something” (ie. “punishment in relation to crime”); not “in relation to something that should be equivalent” (ie. “punishment X for crime X” in relation to “punishment Y for crime X”). To make the point explicitly: calling for boycotts against Israel for misconducts and ignoring similar misconducts by other countries _may_ in certain cases be informed by racism, flat out anti-Israeli or pro-Muslim sentiments, anti-Semitism, white guilt or whatever (none of which you have proven in this case), but that does **not** make it disproportionate or even necessarily unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/177 "2011-07-26T21:26:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I will try, but first you need to represent to me that you are seriously skeptical of the claim that Israel receives disproportionate criticism. I am skeptical of that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/178 "2011-07-26T21:36:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Well what explains it then? What explains the fact that there have been more UN Human Rights Council condemnations of Israel than all other countries combined? Assuming that’s true (cite?) - it seems to me that the UN is extremely unwilling to do anything significant against what it perceives to be Israeli misconducts. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/179 "2011-07-26T21:39:57Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Note that your definition states “in relation to something” (ie. “punishment in relation to crime”); not “in relation to something that should be equivalent” (ie. “punishment X for crime X” in relation to “punishment Y for crime X”). Lol, don’t be ridiculous. The word “disproportionate” is regularly used to mean “more than would be expected if entities were treated equally.” > [@](#): > > To make the point explicitly: calling for boycotts against Israel for misconducts and ignoring similar misconducts by other countries _may_ in certain cases be informed by racism, flat out anti-Israeli or pro-Muslim sentiments, anti-Semitism, white guilt or whatever (none of which you have proven in this case), but that does **not** make it disproportionate or even necessarily unfair. I disagree about what has been proved, but in any event so what? I have explained to you what I meant when I used the word “disproportionate.” You are free to argue that my use of the word is incorrect, but it would be dishonest strawmanning if you insist on interpreting my statements using your own definition. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311/180 "2011-07-26T21:47:08Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Those of you who need to be reminded that most people are not like this, I encourage you to look at these photos of [the rose march in Oslo.](http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/25/nyheter/innenriks/utoya/oslo/17453865/) This happened in every city and town in Norway. It’s our country, and Breivik can’t have it. My deepest sympathy for you, your son, and the people of Norway. When I read that 100,000 had gathered in Oslo for the march, I confess that I literally got choked up.The Norwegian people have set a laudable example of compassion and grace. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-glenn-beck-compares-utoya-murder-victims-to-hitler-youth/590311.md?page=10)