# RO: Palestinian jailed for being Palestinian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472 "2010-07-21T15:29:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/181 "2010-07-23T12:12:18Z")
I just assume he and Alesan are paid employees of the Israeli State, such blindness is too irrational otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/182 "2010-07-23T13:08:51Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I’m sort of hung up on this. How is it fraud? Let me ask you this. If a guy tells a woman that he has a 9 inch penis to get her to go to bed with him and she finds out the next morning that he has a 5 inch penis, is that fraud? Should he go to jail? What about in Disney’s Aladdin? Should the motherfucker be executed or imprisoned because he lied that he was a Prince instead of a pauper so he could have sex with Jasmine? Men lie and exaggerate all of the time to get pussy - it’s so common that the phenomenon is nearly a proverb. This should be a lesson to the woman that you should take anything a man says with a grain of salt. > > - Honesty, who is flying on a carpet I for one haven’t, to my knowledge, _impersonated someone else_ to get laid; though the stuff of (creepy) romantic comedies, I seriously doubt it is as common as you claim. The answer would appear to be that the test for whether the lie is truly material enough to qualify has a subjective and an objective component: that is, whether a hypothetical “reasonable person” would find the lie to be of such significance that ‘but for’ the lie, the consent would not have been obtained. Thus, slightly exaggerating one’s prowess at golf, or sexual abilities, or whatever may simply be considered too minor a matter - in the lingo of contract law, “mere puffery”. OTOH, lying about one’s marital status and ethnicity probably would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/183 "2010-07-23T13:10:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’d be interesting to see that come into play in a statutory rape case where a minor girl lied about her age in order to seduce an adult man. Both parties could technically be guilty of raping each other. There is an article on exactly that topic posted above … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/184 "2010-07-23T13:25:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’d be interesting to see that come into play in a statutory rape case where a minor girl lied about her age in order to seduce an adult man. Both parties could technically be guilty of raping each other. That’s the pdf link about rape by fraud that I linked to and quoted from. It was specifically focused on that concept. Warning: it is a bit long. **Damuri** examples of the other cases of rape by fraud prosecuted in Israel _have_ been provided in this thread. Have you forgotten already? As far as your understanding of the facts of the case … where exactly do you get those? All I can find is that the man has plea bargained to an admission that he lied about his religious identity in order to get sex. As a result of that plea bargain he is getting 18 months. If you have sources for more details pleas share them. And from your pot point I take it that you are trying to say that the _statistical_ analysis of _one_ case being brought against a Palestinian male for rape by fraud regarding religious identity against a Jewish female vs none against a Jewish male for the same crime against a Palestinian female (albeit Jewish males have been prosecuted for lies about their jobs, which I would think is less important than religious identity to many) is evidence of racist application of a law? You sure that’s not you smoking the pot? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/185 "2010-07-23T13:30:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That’s the pdf link about rape by fraud that I linked to and quoted from. It was specifically focused on that concept. Warning: it is a bit long. Yeah, it crashed my machine when I tried to load it. Le sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/186 "2010-07-23T13:40:00Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > So, for instance, **Honesty** , the reason it can be called fraud to lie to somebody in order to get sex is that, loosely speaking, fraud only means lying to somebody to get something out of them. So why wouldn’t it be? The law doesn’t say “but not if it’s something obvious like ‘I’ve got a huge wang’” or otherwise require that it be particularly egregious. Ordinarily, that kind of discretion is exercised by some combination of the victim, the police, the DA, and the courts. If all of them feel like taking it seriously, there’s nothing preventing a perfectly by the book conviction for it, which shocks people because it doesn’t match their expectations, only their expectations are naturally based on the practical enforcement of the law, and not the letter. It’s the same with rape – “but that’s OBVIOUSLY not rape!” The thing is, rape has a definition, and the things that fit it do fit it. > > I don’t mean to say that the question “why would this be prosecuted” isn’t a good one; just that the question “how is this (crime X)” is generally pretty easy to answer. Your reasoning is very logical and I agree with it to a point; however, this particular law attempts to a force a behavior deviates from the reality of male-female interactions. I don’t have a crystal ball but I suspect that the majority of men have lied or exaggerated to get in bed with a woman and don’t see it especially deserving of prosecution. Your mileage may vary. Would be amusing to see women file lawsuits en masse against men who lied in order to sleep with them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/187 "2010-07-23T13:43:40Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I just assume he and Alesan are paid employees of the Israeli State, such blindness is too irrational otherwise. **Alessan** is actually quite reasonable. I mean he is actually Israeli, so it shouldn’t be surprising that he’s a _bit_ partisan. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/188 "2010-07-23T13:57:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > For example. Smoking pot was illegal in California when I was in college. The enforcement seemed to be a bit… uneven. How many white college students do you think spent time in California jails for smoking pot? How many poor black guys? That’s actually a very good example of the problem we are chewing over in this thread. The law against pot smoking in that state is racially “neutral”. However, if Black guys and only Black guys (or a vastly disproportionate number of 'em) are charged and convicted, absent some explanitory factors the system appears to have racism built in to it. That’s exactly the sort of judgment that _reiterated_ examples can provide; because pot smoking is really common, we know lots of White people do it too, and so you’d expect that many ought to be convicted - if the laws were applied even-handedly, right? Now, the problem in this case is its uniqueness. This is clearly a newly-developed area of law - from what I remember the leading case was only a couple of years ago - and this is the first time any person has been charged on the basis of their _ethnic_ (as opposed to professional) identity. If such charges became common, and always worked one way and not the other - that is, Jews who impersonate Arabs to get laid never get charged, but Arabs who impersonate Jews commonly are charged - then the situation would be analogous to the “Blacks smoking pot” situation. As it is, there is simply not enough data to make that determination. You cannot logically base "systemic’ discrimination on the basis of a _single data point_. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/189 "2010-07-23T14:12:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Alessan** is actually quite reasonable. I mean he is actually Israeli, so it shouldn’t be surprising that he’s a _bit_ partisan. Indeed. He shows none of the rabid mentalism of FinnAgain. I may not agree with him all the time, but I can certainly discuss things with him. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/190 "2010-07-23T15:21:54Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I just assume he and Alesan are paid employees of the Israeli State, such blindness is too irrational otherwise. You can’t buy that kind of irrationality. I don’t think Alessan calls epople anti-semites as regularly as Finn Again does YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/191 "2010-07-23T15:59:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Right cuz you’ve never tried to justify Israel’s acts by comparing them to what an arab nation might do under a similar circumstance. No, you’re making that up. Would it help you if I pretend that I’m surprised that you’d do such a thing? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So now you’re going to bring up stuff I said (and then shifted positon on after debate) in OTHER threads? > Do you think taking a post out of context is going to make your argument more credible? First off, you’re full of shit when you claim you “shifted position”, the whole point is that regardless of the information, you kept the same exact position again and again and again. Which, of course, is the point. You’re the kind of person who doesn’t let facts get in the way of your anti-Israel narrative. Second, I quoted and linked to the entire post where you admitted that you’re bigoted against a nation rather than looking at the facts and objecting to any specific set of policies. And there’s no “context” in which your admission of bigotry becomes not-bigotry, your dodge is rather lame, but expected. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Those guys you mention who criticize Israel but are not bigots… They’re not critics of Israel… they’re apologists Maybe in your view (which you pretend is objective even after admitting that you habitually look for ways to further your anti-Israel narrative and have to fight against your bigotry), criticizing Israel doesn’t count unless someone is also a kneejerk anti-Israel partisan. Of course, back in reality, I pointed out several people who’ve gone on record criticizing Israel but since they’re not part of the anti-Israel brigade and they actually engage in object analysis of the facts rather than your biigoted narrative, why, they must be “apologists”. And so they totally don’t count. You’d be hard pressed to find any aspect of Israel that hasn’t been criticized by one of the other of the folks I listed, but that’s not good enough for you. It’s not enough to be a knowledgeable individual who takes issues with specific policies, folks need to have the same anti-Israel narrative that you’ve admitted to or else they’re “apologists”. Neat little world you have there. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > legal experts say is “used sparingly and even then in cases involving protracted deceit and a promise of marriage.” Yep, this is the kind dishonesty you habitually engage in to further your stated anti-Israel narrative. Not too surprising. It’s been clarified, in this very thread, again and again, that the law has been used multiple times when there was no issue of protracted deceit and no promise of marriage. But you aren’t go to let the facts get in the way of your nonsense. Unsurprising. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You can’t buy that kind of irrationality. > I don’t think Alessan calls epople anti-semites as regularly as Finn Again does YMMV. You, who’ve admitted you’re a bigot who instinctively looks to find ways to demonize Israel regardless of the facts or any actual analysis and who routinely ignored facts or uses non-facts as long as they prop up that narrative… you’re accusing someone of “irrationality” for pointing out what kind of a person you are. It’s comedy, on a certain level. Of course, you’re also making up the fact that I call people anti-semites at all regularly. I don’t, that’s your fiction. I know it’s part of the Big Lie that you folks have got going, but it simply doesn’t fly. Likewise, as part of the standrd anti-Israel Brigade’s narrative, you also would rather look at whether or not the accusation is made rather than whether or not they’re any substance to it. Like going to a cat convention and savagely nibbling on the ankles of someone while decrying that, why, he said that a lot of thigns there were cats! If you don’t want me to point out the biases and dishonesty of your little coterie, stop using dishonesty in service of your anti-Israel narrative. Is it really that hard? And while you’re at it, maybe find out wtf you’re talking about before you make an argument. Not that “I have no idea what the facts are but I’m willing to demonize Israel!” isn’t cute, and all. Of course, a good few of your little coterie are bigoted against a nation, so I suppose you can pat yourselves on the back that you are only bigots and not racists. Truly, a noble distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/192 "2010-07-23T17:13:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That’s the pdf link about rape by fraud that I linked to and quoted from. It was specifically focused on that concept. Warning: it is a bit long. > > **Damuri** examples of the other cases of rape by fraud prosecuted in Israel _have_ been provided in this thread. Have you forgotten already? I saw some refeernce to other cases where jewish men were convicted of the same charge. I don’t remember seeing links with the details but I do remmeber seeing a quote by a former prosecutor saying that this was rarely prosecuted and usually only in cases of protracted fraud or promises of marriage. > [@](#): > > As far as your understanding of the facts of the case … where exactly do you get those? All I can find is that the man has plea bargained to an admission that he lied about his religious identity in order to get sex. As a result of that plea bargain he is getting 18 months. If you have sources for more details pleas share them. I googles the guy’s last name Kashur, Palestinian, violent, rape and fraud. I got a bunch of articles. A lot of them have somewhat conflicting accounts, for example, most articles state for a fact that Kashur pretended to be a Jewish bachelor looking for a serious relationship, a few articles give Kashur’s side of the story but there is no conflict on the notion tha the original charge was violent rape and sexual assault and that the charge dropped to the current charge after cops received evidence that the sex was consensual. > [@](#): > > And from your pot point I take it that you are trying to say that the _statistical_ analysis of _one_ case being brought against a Palestinian male for rape by fraud regarding religious identity against a Jewish female vs none against a Jewish male for the same crime against a Palestinian female (albeit Jewish males have been prosecuted for lies about their jobs, which I would think is less important than religious identity to many) is evidence of racist application of a law? You sure that’s not you smoking the pot? You really don’t see any reason to think that this is anything other than a neutral application of the law by the prosecutors and judges? It might be that this was in fact a neutral application of teh alw but you don’t see anything about how the case progressed from real rape to the current charge that makes you scratch your head a bit or at least want to ak a few more questions? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/193 "2010-07-23T17:23:59Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That’s actually a very good example of the problem we are chewing over in this thread. > > The law against pot smoking in that state is racially “neutral”. However, if Black guys and only Black guys (or a vastly disproportionate number of 'em) are charged and convicted, absent some explanitory factors the system appears to have racism built in to it. > > That’s exactly the sort of judgment that _reiterated_ examples can provide; because pot smoking is really common, we know lots of White people do it too, and so you’d expect that many ought to be convicted - if the laws were applied even-handedly, right? > > Now, the problem in this case is its uniqueness. This is clearly a newly-developed area of law - from what I remember the leading case was only a couple of years ago - and this is the first time any person has been charged on the basis of their _ethnic_ (as opposed to professional) identity. If such charges became common, and always worked one way and not the other - that is, Jews who impersonate Arabs to get laid never get charged, but Arabs who impersonate Jews commonly are charged - then the situation would be analogous to the “Blacks smoking pot” situation. > > As it is, there is simply not enough data to make that determination. You cannot logically base "systemic’ discrimination on the basis of a _single data point_. You’re right that this is not EXACTLY analogous to the pot example because there is only one Palestinian sitting in jail for this crime. I agree that the argument would be stronger if there were a hundred palestinian sitting in jail for this crime. But I would like to point to the case of the 18 eyar old black high school senior who got sentenced to 10 years in jail in Florida who had sex with an with a 16 eyar old white girl and got sent to jail for a blow job (they couldn’t get him on rape because it was obviously consensual, they couldn’t get him on statutory rape because of Romeo and Juliet laws, so they got him for something like contributing to the delinquency of a minor or sodomy or something because the girl gave him oral sex. The law was facially neutral but was only ever applied in his case. They started with all sorts of charges that couldn’t be supported until they found one that would stick. I think that this case might be a bit like the Florida case. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/194 "2010-07-23T17:46:05Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Of course, a good few of your little coterie are bigoted against a nation, so I suppose you can pat yourselves on the back that you are only bigots and not racists. Truly, a noble distinction. Its not some small minority of anti-semites that you are talking about. Half the board thinks you foam at the mouth whenever someone criticizes Israel. In any given thread about Israel you are calling half the posters (usually more) anti-semites. My opinion of Israel is subject to change depending on what Israel does. When they do something I think praisewortyhy, i praise them and when they do something I think deserves criticism, I criticize them. Your opinion of Israel is inflexible and does nto change regardfless of what Israel does. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/195 "2010-07-23T18:00:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re right that this is not EXACTLY analogous to the pot example because there is only one Palestinian sitting in jail for this crime. I agree that the argument would be stronger if there were a hundred palestinian sitting in jail for this crime. I’d put it differently - that there would _be_ an argument, and a good one, if there were lots of examples one way and none the other. > [@](#): > > But I would like to point to the case of the 18 eyar old black high school senior who got sentenced to 10 years in jail in Florida who had sex with an with a 16 eyar old white girl and got sent to jail for a blow job (they couldn’t get him on rape because it was obviously consensual, they couldn’t get him on statutory rape because of Romeo and Juliet laws, so they got him for something like contributing to the delinquency of a minor or sodomy or something because the girl gave him oral sex. The law was facially neutral but was only ever applied in his case. They started with all sorts of charges that couldn’t be supported until they found one that would stick. I think that this case might be a bit like the Florida case. I have no idea about this Florida case (the details you give are not very clear), but if the argument is that the case is an obvious never-applied absurdity and thus that it therefore _must_ be an example of racism because use of such an absurd, archaic law is a transparent attempt to “get” a guy they otherwise could not charge, that argument fails as well - because while one could argue that the law is “absurd”, it has been previously applied to several Jews, as you know; it has not ‘only been applied in his case’, but rather ‘only been applied to an Arab in this (very unusual) specific fact situation’. As far as I know, _all_ other examples of folks charged under this law have been - Jews! Which sorta cuts against the notion that the law is applied “racially”. I dunno how you’d analogize that to your BJ example - it only “works” if Whites _aren’t_ being charged for getting BJs, if (as you say) “The law was facially neutral but was only ever applied in his case”. We _know_ that’s not true in the Israeli example. In fact the reverse is true. Far from being some archaic hold-over from the 19th century like “sodomy” that is just kept on the law books because it is too much trouble to remove it, this is as we know a really _new_ legal development - fueled I suspect by _feminism_. It isn’t an old law “never applied” but a new law where a large body of case-law has yet to be accumulated … ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/196 "2010-07-23T19:52:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Alessan** is actually quite reasonable. I mean he is actually Israeli, so it shouldn’t be surprising that he’s a _bit_ partisan. I would also imagine that he has a better perspective, than **Finn** , who IIRC, lives here in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/197 "2010-07-23T20:06:19Z")
Yes, why is it that so many of the most choleric Israel jingoists don’t have enough courage of their convictions to actually go live there? **Alessan** does live in the world of the sane, true, but he does share some of **Frothy** ’s huge blind spots regarding seeing Palestinians as humans and neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/198 "2010-07-23T20:44:27Z")
Elvis, as one of the single dumbest fuckers on the entire internet, I am sure your analytical skills can better be spent vomiting. I know you like to imagine that anybody doesn’t see Palestinians as human but, see, that’s because you’re stupid and your brain doesn’t function. Just like when I pointed out that hypocrisy of the anti-Israel brigade by illustrations from the destruction of a camp in Lebanon and the entire town of Hama, and your synapses short circuited and you decided that I was advocating a repeat of Hama. You really are Gonzomax level retarded. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In any given thread about Israel you are calling half the posters (usually more) anti-semites. I see that having it pointed out that you’re lying doesn’t dissuade you from keeping on lying. Please, lie bigger next time. The lie that |I call lots of people anti-semites is stupid and easily proven false, so go bigger. I call people Nazi anti-Semites. No, I call people Nazi lawyer anti-Semites! I mean, as long as you’ve decided that you’re going to lie about me, lie big, bucko. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > My opinion of Israel is subject to change depending on what Israel does. > [@you](#): > > I don’t think I used to be a knee-jerk Israel criticiser but Finn is quickly turning me into one. I don’t sepdn time slowly digesting new facts into my gestalt of what is going on in the middle east, instead I find myself trying to fifure out how new facts can be incorporated into a narrative against Israel and I have to make a conscious effort to retain objectivity and that really bothers me. I don’t think this was the case before I encountered Finn. So were you lying then, or are you lying now? Of course, you’re full of it when you claim that you change your opinion. As I already pointed out and the facts show, you are totally immune to proof and refutation. You will repeat an argument, over and over and over again, even if it’s been refuted and shown to be completely fictional. And you will use the same fiction to support your argument. Just like you decided that a totally neutral law that was properly applied was really 'apartheid!". And even after the actual legal framework had been cited and quoted perhaps a dozen times in this thread, you still decided that even though it wasn’t true, since the claim that it’s never applied except in cases of marriage promises and long term deception was helpful to your anti-Israel narrative, you’d use it. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Your opinion of Israel is inflexible and does nto change regardfless of what Israel does. Yet another lie. Good for you, but lie bigger. Of course I’ve criticized numerous policies and actions that Israel has undertaken, so your lie is obvious but not quite big enough. Go big! I don’t just never criticize Israel, I’m really an evil Israeli Agent on the payroll of the Mossad. If you’re going to lie, put your heart into it at least. Oh and: > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > there is no conflict on the notion tha the original charge was violent rape and sexual assault and that the charge dropped to the current charge after cops received evidence that the sex was consensual. You’re making that up too. The original charge was not “violent rape”, at all. And the “evidence” that was received was the woman’s own testimony that formed the basis of the complaint that went to the court. You’re just trying to fit the facts into your habitual anti-Israel narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/199 "2010-07-23T21:12:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I have no idea about this Florida case (the details you give are not very clear), but if the argument is that the case is an obvious never-applied absurdity and thus that it therefore _must_ be an example of racism because use of such an absurd, archaic law is a transparent attempt to “get” a guy they otherwise could not charge, that argument fails as well - because while one could argue that the law is “absurd”, it has been previously applied to several Jews, as you know; it has not ‘only been applied in his case’, but rather ‘only been applied to an Arab in this (very unusual) specific fact situation’. I hope somebody can help me out. It happened several years ago. there was a black high school football captain or quarterback in Florida. They had a party where there was casual sex involving a sixteen year old girl. Someone caught it on their cell phone and they sent the guy to jail for 10 years. I’m not saying the Florida case MUST be racism but it sure looks that way. On the one hand I have credible claims that Jewish men have been charged and convicted under this law. On the other hand I have a credible claim that this crime is usually reserved for situations involving protracted fraud or promises of marriage. What I don’t have are the facts of those other cases to see if we are comparing apples to apples. If for example it turns out that these cases are sitautions where some Jewish guy lied about his job, had a one night stand and ended up in jail then OK, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. No detectable racism. On the other hand it turns out that the Jewish guys that ended up in jail conned a string of women or conned one woman for a long period of time, then I would suggest taht the law is being applied in a new and novel way and there might be some racism present. > [@](#): > > As far as I know, _all_ other examples of folks charged under this law have been - Jews! Which sorta cuts against the notion that the law is applied “racially”. Like I said, I think some of it depends on the circumstances of those other cases. > [@](#): > > I dunno how you’d analogize that to your BJ example - it only “works” if Whites _aren’t_ being charged for getting BJs, if (as you say) “The law was facially neutral but was only ever applied in his case”. I would say that its not the mere fact that the law hasn’t been applied in the past. its the fact that it was being applied in this circumstance. I believe that the Florida case was not based on dead letter law that was never applied until they needed something to pin on a black guy. It could have very well been applied in other cases but it had never been applied in that context before. > [@](#): > > We _know_ that’s not true in the Israeli example. In fact the reverse is true. Far from being some archaic hold-over from the 19th century like “sodomy” that is just kept on the law books because it is too much trouble to remove it, this is as we know a really _new_ legal development - fueled I suspect by _feminism_. It isn’t an old law “never applied” but a new law where a large body of case-law has yet to be accumulated … I’d like to see the other cases where this law was applied. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472/200 "2010-07-23T21:24:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > …lyou’re lying …lying… Please, lie bigger next time. …The lie that…you’re going to lie …lie big, bucko. So were you lying then, or are you lying now? …Of course, you’re full of it when you claim that you change your opinion… …Yet another lie. …Good for you, but lie bigger… so your lie is obvious …If you’re going to lie,…You’re making that up too.. Does it strike you as odd that I lie and lie big all the fucking time and you’re the only one that notices it (or at least the only one that thinks it lying)? And yet every Israel thread you shit on has a dozen posters saying “Oh no, Finn Again found this thread” I used to get all worked up when you called me an anti-semite or a liar until I realized that was what you did to anyone that criticized Israel. You may know your shit when it comes to Israel but noone trusts that you are presenting all the facts in anything close to an objective manner. You simply have little or no credibility with anyone on this board (well maybe there are a handful of folks) and to the extent you are a crusader, you are doing your cause more harm than good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-palestinian-jailed-for-being-palestinian/547472.md?page=11)