# RO: Police shoot, kill mentally ill teenager **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311 "2014-01-08T20:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/181 "2014-01-16T14:32:26Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You have got to be kidding. You actually made that dare? I think he passed the argumentative stage and has graduated to trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/182 "2014-01-16T14:45:59Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Care to try again? You dare him to give you “ONE case, just one, where an on-duty police officer was actually sent to jail for a crime he committed while on duty.” He gives you 12 (becuase he’s an overachiever, I guess). And you announce they don’t count (for no apparent reason) and invite him to try again? How could he resist? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/183 "2014-01-16T14:50:04Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > You dare him to give you “ONE case, just one, where an on-duty police officer was actually sent to jail for a crime he committed while on duty.” He gives you 12 (becuase he’s an overachiever, I guess). And you announce they don’t count (for no apparent reason) and invite him to try again? My bad, I meant to specify only murder and/or excessive force, thought I had but guess I was wrong. If that makes me a troll or whatever, go piss up a rope. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/184 "2014-01-16T15:13:03Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Murder/Manslaughter: ZERO. > > Care to try again? [Here you go.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/26/oklahoma-police-captain-convicted-unarmed-teenager-murder) ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/185 "2014-01-16T15:25:16Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > [Cute.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_Abuse_Resistance_Education) 😛 > I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re unaware of how those two sentences actually parse…(unless it’s your unconscious brainwashing poking through?) I’m not sure what you’re driving at, but I’m reasonably sure that I’m the literate one in this exchange, so… > [@](#): > > Good on you for conceding that _some_ victims of police brutality receive zero justice or closure. Your attitude still sucks, but it’s a start! I suppose that being reasonable, calm, and rational isn’t the attitude you’re looking for. If it’s more in line with your expectations: You are a cretinous little turd blossom, whose ancestors never made it to the deep end of the gene pool. If your IQ ever rises to 50, sell. And no, I don’t want fries with that, thanks. > [@](#): > > As for your so-called examples, nice work but not as nice as you think: > > [Washington DC](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/police-officer-arrested-producing-child-porn-duty-article-1.1536284) – kiddy porn doesn’t count. (But yes, these stories make me sick.) > [Des Moines](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20131220/NEWS01/312200090/U-S-prosecutor-seeks-more-jail-former-D-M-police-officer) – excessive force, okay but note the story does say it’s a “rare exception”. > [San Antonio](http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-police-officer-accused-traffic-stop-rape/story?id=21010823) – rape, technically doesn’t count although IMO raping someone is sicker than possessing kiddy porn. :mad: > [San Marcos, TX](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/james-angelo-palermo_n_3612298.html) – Huff.Post crashes my outdated browser but Google says this was aggravated assault, not murder but okay, close enough. > [Meriden, CT](http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Meriden-Police-Officer-to-be-Sentenced-Monday-224707662.html) – excessive force, again. (Where’s the murder???) > [New York](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-22/business/sns-rt-usa-newyorkcopl2e8hm97q-20120622_1_michael-daragjati-racial-slur-stop-and-frisk-program) – false arrest & made up charges, doesn’t count but do note this happens far more frequently than what we’ve been talking about. > [Lawrenceville, GA](http://lawrenceville-ga.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/police-officer-from-lawrenceville-jailed-on-drug-conspiracy-charges) – drug conspiracy, doesn’t count. > [New Orleans](http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/12/former_nopd_officer_sentenced.html) – Nice try…if you had properly [done your research](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings) you’d have learned that the convictions were overturned in 2013, and the killer cops were never actually found guilty of murder! > [Baltimore](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-31/news/bs-md-ci-police-corruption-indictment-20130531_1_drug-dealer-baltimore-police-officer-west-baltimore) – drug corruption, doesn’t count. > [Sacramento](http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2013/04/former-sacramento-police-officer-will-serve-a-year-in-jail-for-falsifying-r.html) – falsifying DUI reports, doesn’t count. > [Kansas City](http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news/kc-cop-pleads-guilty-heads-to-jail) – excessive force and ‘reckless physical injury’, okay. > [Milwaukee](http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/July/12-crt-951.html) – sexual assault + the ever popular “violating civil rights” due to being a federal case only. > > So far you have found: > Excessive force: Six (I’ll be generous and include rape/sexual assault here) > Drug dealers: Two > Falsifying reports (no assaults or other crimes): Two > Kiddy Porn: One > Murder/Manslaughter: ZERO. > > Care to try again? No, I don’t care to try again. I provided a dozen examples of precisely what you asked for. You came back to move the goalposts. Do your own fucking [research](https://www.google.com/). ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/186 "2014-01-16T15:38:26Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > As for your so-called examples, nice work but not as nice as you think: Sure, when you deploy your latest tactic, which is to move the goalposts. You made a ridiculous claim, it was disproven, and you lost. Man up and learn from it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/187 "2014-01-16T15:41:32Z")
It took me less than 10 seconds to find information on [Craig Peyer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Peyer), who was convicted of murdering someone while he was on duty. Peyer is still in prison. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/188 "2014-01-16T15:43:59Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > My bad, I meant to specify only murder and/or excessive force, thought I had but guess I was wrong. If that makes me a troll or whatever, go piss up a rope. [http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-releases/2012/birmingham-police-officer-convicted-of-using-excessive-force](http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-releases/2012/birmingham-police-officer-convicted-of-using-excessive-force) [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-10/news/ct-met-dolton-police-brutality-20130510\_1\_dolton-spokeswoman-dolton-police-officer-excessive-force](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-10/news/ct-met-dolton-police-brutality-20130510_1_dolton-spokeswoman-dolton-police-officer-excessive-force) [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-police-officer-guilty-of-assault-for-use-of-excessive-force-during-2011-arrest/2013/10/16/f8e08018-369f-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-police-officer-guilty-of-assault-for-use-of-excessive-force-during-2011-arrest/2013/10/16/f8e08018-369f-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html) [http://www.nbc40.net/story/11573516/former-memphis-police-officer-convicted-of-excessive-force](http://www.nbc40.net/story/11573516/former-memphis-police-officer-convicted-of-excessive-force) > **[Spokane police officer convicted of excessive force, lying](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/03/guilty/)** > > YAKIMA – His jaw quivering at times, Karl F. Thompson Jr. stared straight ahead Wednesday, showing nothing but a stern look as juror after juror confirmed the guilty verdicts they’d reached against him. In the gallery, a supporter quietly wept. I stopped there, but there were more. Don’t move the goalposts again, it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/189 "2014-01-16T16:13:22Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > The issue is that R.N.A.T.B. and others are claiming the negative position, merely based on a \*presumption \*that my claim was mistaken. The presumption isn’t inherent. It arises from your complete failure to support your claim when pressed. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/190 "2014-01-16T16:28:35Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > The issue is that R.N.A.T.B. and others are claiming the negative position, merely based on a \*presumption \*that my claim was mistaken. Since you claimed the right to have your claims _presumed to be true_, you can’t complain. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/191 "2014-01-16T17:12:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Since you claimed the right to have your claims _presumed to be true_, you can’t complain. His post is his cite. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/192 "2014-01-16T17:30:22Z")
**buddha\_david** , are you attempting to employ ALL logical fallacies in the thread? If so, you are off to a good start. > [@](#): > > posted by **Clothahump** > > This is where you and apparently everyone else is wrong. I’m not defending them. I’m saying wait for the result of the investigation instead of jumping to conclusions. If they acted incorrectly, then they should be hung out to dry. A perfectly reasonable position. Let’s wait for the investigation to be completed. The OP’s own linked story says they have more questions than answers, which may mean things are not nearly as clear cut as they may seem at first glance. But then, ain’t it always the case? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/193 "2014-01-16T17:43:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > [http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-releases/2012/birmingham-police-officer-convicted-of-using-excessive-force](http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-releases/2012/birmingham-police-officer-convicted-of-using-excessive-force) > > [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-10/news/ct-met-dolton-police-brutality-20130510\_1\_dolton-spokeswoman-dolton-police-officer-excessive-force](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-10/news/ct-met-dolton-police-brutality-20130510_1_dolton-spokeswoman-dolton-police-officer-excessive-force) > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-police-officer-guilty-of-assault-for-use-of-excessive-force-during-2011-arrest/2013/10/16/f8e08018-369f-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-police-officer-guilty-of-assault-for-use-of-excessive-force-during-2011-arrest/2013/10/16/f8e08018-369f-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html) > > [http://www.nbc40.net/story/11573516/former-memphis-police-officer-convicted-of-excessive-force](http://www.nbc40.net/story/11573516/former-memphis-police-officer-convicted-of-excessive-force) > > [Spokane police officer convicted of excessive force, lying](http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/03/guilty/) > > I stopped there, but there were more. > > Don’t move the goalposts again, it’s too late. So, including the examples from **Cheesesteak Tartare** and **Monty Pylon** , we have a grand total of eight, count 'em EIGHT actual uniformed killers where the LEO received justice!!! Good work guys! That’s compared to…what was the cite upthread? Approx. 2000 civilian deaths per year by police gunfire? It was something like that, too busy to check myself. Now, 8 vs. 2000 isn’t barely anything (esp. when you consider the VAST MAJORITY of LEO’s who kill and walk free to kill again) but it’s a start! Keep up the good work, guys! 🆒 > [@Telemark](#): > > His post is his cite. Ooh, how original. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/194 "2014-01-16T18:01:48Z")
buddha\_david, thank you for that last post, now I know that discussing this with you is a complete waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/195 "2014-01-16T18:03:55Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > So, including the examples from **Cheesesteak Tartare** and **Monty Pylon** , we have a grand total of eight, count 'em EIGHT actual uniformed killers where the LEO received justice!!! Good work guys! That’s compared to…what was the cite upthread? Approx. 2000 civilian deaths per year by police gunfire? It was something like that, too busy to check myself. Now, 8 vs. 2000 isn’t barely anything (esp. when you consider the VAST MAJORITY of LEO’s who kill and walk free to kill again) but it’s a start! Keep up the good work, guys! 🆒 [Let](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2013) [me](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2012) [Google](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2011) [that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2010) [for](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2009) [you](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_prior_to_2009). I rather enjoy how you have all the time in the world to post here with your impressions, your half-remembered “may have seen a youtube video” cites, and your laughable attempts at playing “gotcha,” but not ten seconds to search for information that supports your claims. Perhaps you’re afraid that you’ll stumble across some actual truthy sorts of facts that don’t suit your particular prejudices? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/196 "2014-01-16T18:06:37Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Ooh, how original. If you’re going to post repetitive crap, expect to be called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/197 "2014-01-16T18:59:07Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > So, including the examples from **Cheesesteak Tartare** and **Monty Pylon** , we have a grand total of eight, count 'em EIGHT actual uniformed killers where the LEO received justice!!! You seem to be laboring under the bizarre delusion that every single instance of killing by a LEO merits a murder conviction. I present for your scholarly consideration the most recent case of a police shooting: [Gunman shot dead after killing two women in grocery store: cops](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/16/22321087-gunman-shot-dead-after-killing-two-women-in-grocery-store-cops?lite) > [@NBC News](#): > > A gunman killed an employee and a customer at an Indiana grocery store before being shot dead by police, officials said early Thursday. > > The suspect was identified Thursday as Shawn Walter Bair, a resident of Elkhart, Ind., the city where the shooting occurred. He had his gun pointed at a third person when officers arrived at Martin’s Super Market in Elkhart, State Police Sgt. Trent Smith said in a press conference early Thursday. > > When he pointed his weapon at the officers, they shot him dead, Smith said. In my version of reality, this was a justifiable homicide: police officers are permitted to exercise lethal force in defense against a potentially lethal attack. Perhaps you’ll explain for us why, in your version of reality, these cops should be charged with/tried for/convicted of murder. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/198 "2014-01-16T19:07:05Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > [Let](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2013) [me](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2012) [Google](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2011) [that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2010) [for](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2009) [you](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_prior_to_2009). No need, found it: > [@echoreply](#): > > As a matter of fact… I just read [this article the other day.](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/number-officers-killed-line-duty-drops-to-50-year-low-while-number-citizens-killed-cops-remains-unchanged.shtml) Linked from it is [this document](http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf), which says from 2003-2009 4813 people died while being arrested, of those 2931 where ruled to be homicide by law enforcement personnel. Other causes of death were, in order of most important to least: suicide, intoxication, accidental, natural causes, and unknown. From [this site](http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html), during the same time period 1090 police officers died in the line of duty. So that’s 2931 police killings in 7 years, which averages to **418.7 per year.** Your own cites only gave totals for 2012-13 (I wasn’t about to bother counting the rest by hand) which gave 304+587= 891 / 2 = **445.5 police killings per year.** I know that last one’s not statistically significant (and please don’t snark that I can actually add, because I used a calculator) but even with a conservative figure of 405-420 police killings per year, that’s a hell of a lot more than any opposing figures you LEO ass-kissers have come up with yet. > [@echoreply](#): > > I rather enjoy how you have all the time in the world to post here with your impressions, your half-remembered “may have seen a youtube video” cites, and your laughable attempts at playing “gotcha,” but not ten seconds to search for information that supports your claims. Perhaps you’re afraid that you’ll stumble across some actual truthy sorts of facts that don’t suit your particular prejudices? It’s all about Time Management, buddy. And I have all the facts to back up my “truthiness” as you oh so sarcastically call it. I know the truth, I have borne witness to the facts and the evidence is clear-cut, especially in the Kelly Thomas case (which I have followed from Day One) as well as the late Keith Vidal which is developing as we speak. Don’t bitch at me as if I only read the headlines and nothing else, because nothing could be farther from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/199 "2014-01-16T19:15:26Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > You seem to be laboring under the bizarre delusion that every single instance of killing by a LEO merits a murder conviction. […] > > In my version of reality, [the Elkhart Incident] was a justifiable homicide: police officers are permitted to exercise lethal force in defense against a potentially lethal attack. Your point is fair, so how about this, why don’t you break down the prior statistics and separate what you consider the good killin’s vs. the bad killin’s? Hey, if someone’s gonna accuse me for failing to not make better use of my time, I can play that same game. And frankly, your argument’s a fucking straw man. The topic here isn’t about whether or not some police killings are justified. The topic is that all too often, the killings which are NOT justified (as well as use of excessive force a la Rodney King), all too often go absolutely unpunished. The murderers of Kelly Thomas are walking the street, smiling and gloating as if they got away with murder (and they did!) and one’s even petitioning the city of Fullerton to get his job back so he can have license to murder more homeless people. The same will likely happen to the pig who murdered young Keith Vidal – mark my words. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/200 "2014-01-16T19:21:19Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > we have a grand total of eight, count 'em EIGHT Son, you’ve lost miserably. You can’t play this goalpost moving thing any more. You are seriously lacking in critical thinking/debate/logic skills. That’s okay, it takes time to learn those things. But the first step is to realize you don’t know what you’re doing. Then you can learn from those who teach you the hard way. Enough already. You lost. Go home and learn from it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=11)