# RO: Police shoot, kill mentally ill teenager **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311 "2014-01-08T20:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/241 "2014-01-17T18:56:24Z")
Forgot to address the \* in my last post. Refering to this pt as a kid would badly misrepresent the situation, it took 4 adult males to control him without hurting him or letting him hurt us. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/242 "2014-01-17T19:35:30Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Refering to this pt as a kid would badly misrepresent the situation, it took 4 adult males to control him without hurting him or letting him hurt us. \ 4 adult males were _sufficient_. We know 1 untrained adult male was insufficient (the dad called 911). It hasn’t been established all 4 were _necessary_. We do not know with certainly the situation could not have been resolved successfully with the addition of 1 or 2 police officers. \ ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/243 "2014-01-17T19:37:53Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > …it took 4 adult males to control him without hurting him or letting him hurt us. And a gun. Don’t forget the gun. > [@outlierrn](#): > > OTOH, I have a friend who is also a nurse, with a mentally ill son who quit working the ER after seeing a situation that was handled badly. Lemme guess…he was slapped silly with a wet towel? Do share, if you feel like sharing. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/244 "2014-01-17T20:51:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > \ 4 adult males were _sufficient_. We know 1 untrained adult male was insufficient (the dad called 911). It hasn’t been established all 4 were _necessary_. We do not know with certainly the situation could not have been resolved successfully with the addition of 1 or 2 police officers. \ > [@buddha\_david](#): > > And a gun. Don’t forget the gun. You guys misunderstood me, I was refering to the pt I had in the ER. The pt was highschool age, but it would be wrong to refer to them as a kid because the pt was strong and agitated. It did _require_ 4 adult males to control the situation without using weapons, or allowing harm. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/245 "2014-01-17T20:56:21Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Lemme guess…he was slapped silly with a wet towel? Do share, if you feel like sharing. I don’t know the details. My friend, a qualified ER nurse, with a mentally ill son, told me she was so distressed by watching a situation that could have been de-escalated but was escalated instead, that she decided it was time to move on from the ER. Refer to my first post in this thread, some LEO’s are well prepared for working with mentally ill people, some are not. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/246 "2014-01-17T21:03:23Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > You guys misunderstood me, I was refering to the pt I had in the ER. Ah, my mistake then. I thought you were referring to this case. Carry on, then. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/247 "2014-01-17T21:21:52Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Refer to my first post in this thread, some LEO’s are well prepared for working with mentally ill people, some are not. Yet they _should_ be prepared. It’s part of a policeman’s job to defuse domestic situations, and every police department should require specific training for them. Failure to do so makes the department itself culpable, and those responsible for failing to train these killer cops should be censured and/or fired, and possibly face criminal charges themselves. Merely handwaving away with a snide remark saying, _“Some are trained, some aren’t”_ is like saying it’s okay that some lifeguards can’t swim. Seriously, think about how stupid your remark sounds. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/248 "2014-01-17T21:35:57Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Yet they _should_ > Merely handwaving away with a snide remark saying, _“Some are trained, some aren’t”_ is like saying it’s okay that some lifeguards can’t swim. Seriously, think about how stupid your remark sounds. WTF??? There is no snideness, or hand waving in my post, I did _not_ say it was OK. Seriously, think about how stupid your remark sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/249 "2014-01-17T22:12:13Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Calm down and use your brain and you might produce something useful. I fear that b\_d _is_ using his brain. :eek: Scary, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/250 "2014-01-18T00:31:31Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > So any time an unctuous pig says “That boy needed killin’,” you merely acquit on faith and keep voting Republican? . . . This isn’t working, kid. I already conceded that there are cases where the police commit murder. You’re leaving out any middle ground between “deliberate murder” and “pure as the driven snow.” And the problem is that over 90% of police use-of-force cases will be in that middle ground. Maybe justified…and maybe not. Your efforts to paint it is either Saints or Devils, with nothing in between, ever, is a serious lapse in moral perception. The answer to your question, above, is “No, and nothing I ever wrote should give a rational person that opinion.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/251 "2014-01-18T17:50:48Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This isn’t working, kid. I already conceded that there are cases where the police commit murder. > > You’re leaving out any middle ground between “deliberate murder” and “pure as the driven snow.” And the problem is that over 90% of police use-of-force cases will be in that middle ground. Maybe justified…and maybe not. > > Your efforts to paint it is either Saints or Devils, with nothing in between, ever, is a serious lapse in moral perception. > > The answer to your question, above, is “No, and nothing I ever wrote should give a rational person that opinion.” Most deadly force incidents fall into the “if only” category. “If only he had done _that_ it could have been avoided.” Which is easy to do when you already know the outcome or are watching a dash cam video from the comfort of your own computer screen. But the officer usually does not know he is on a path leading to gunfire and things change in an instant. Professionally, what if-ing is useful as training. On YouTube it leads to a lot of “why didn’t they shoot the knife out of his hand” stupid comments. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/252 "2014-01-18T17:59:08Z")
What is a “pt”? Patient? Perpetrator? Whatever it is, I suspect it is used, like “male” and “female” or other locutions, to dehumanize. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/253 "2014-01-18T19:19:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What is a “pt”? Patient? Perpetrator? Whatever it is, I suspect it is used, like “male” and “female” or other locutions, to dehumanize. If you’re refering to me, it’s an abbreviation for patient, and I chose it to protect my pts privacy by not disclosing too many identifiers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/254 "2014-01-18T19:40:39Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > \ 4 adult males were _sufficient_. We know 1 untrained adult male was insufficient (the dad called 911). It hasn’t been established all 4 were _necessary_. We do not know with certainly the situation could not have been resolved successfully with the addition of 1 or 2 police officers. \ In an old _Calvin and Hobbes_ strip, the family’s on a car trip and pass over a bridge with a sign: “Weight Limit 10 Tons.” “Dad,” asks Calvin, “How do they know what the weight limit for a bridge is?” “They drive heavier and heavier trucks over it until the bridge breaks,” replies his dad glibly. “Then they weigh the last truck and rebuild the bridge.” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/255 "2014-05-02T19:38:30Z")
These police shooting RO threads rarely seem to keep up interest to the point of resolution, so I thought I’d mention there’s been updates on this case. The police officer (Bryon Vassey) who did the shooting has been [indicted](http://www.wwaytv3.com/2014/02/03/grand-jury-indicts-southport-cop-shooting-death-of-teen) by a grand jury for voluntary manslaughter and the DA said that he believes a crime was certainly committed. The officer’s attorney claims that a body mic recording exonerates his client, and that Vidal wasn’t prone on the ground but was still trying to stab the other officers. Vassey’s claim is that after an officer blocked one attempted stab with the screwdriver, Vidal pulled back to stab again and Vassey feared the officer would be unable to block this attempt so he shot and killed Vidal. His account is [here](http://www.wwaytv3.com/2014/02/05/charged-officers-attorney-tells-more-about-bsl-shooting). Meanwhile, Vassey has been placed on [unpaid suspension](http://www.wwaytv3.com/2014/02/13/indicted-southport-officer-suspended-without-pay) while this is being worked out. Might be interesting to keep all of the current facts in mind while looking at the prognostications some made earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/256 "2014-05-02T19:58:21Z")
Hardly any surprise that the cop’s lawyer claims he’s innocent. But that’s typical, since nearly all criminals are non-remorseful and unrepentant. But the evidence against Vassey must be extremely strong, if the DA’s actually allowing the case to move forward instead of being swept under the rug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=12)