# RO: Police shoot, kill mentally ill teenager **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311 "2014-01-08T20:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/61 "2014-01-10T16:15:52Z")
BTW I’m making a prediction based on how these cop killings are normally resolved. That’s no straw man, though. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/62 "2014-01-10T17:30:24Z")
And it is not a strawman either. First of all he says “If” the accusation is true so it is a hypothetical - no fallacy. If he assumed the accusations are true, then it is begging the question. A strawman is when you sat up a different (and assumed indefensible premise) to attack. For example: “This cop set himself up as judge, jury and executioner.” That is not know (he may or may not have felt that way) but it is easy to attack an officer qua vigilante as opposed to an officer that may or may not have misread a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/63 "2014-01-10T18:12:59Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > What straw man? Cop shoots a kid, cop gets a dressing down, cop walks free and marches away with a shit eating grin on his face. It’s the way of the world. :rolleyes: Cop walks away free with shit-eating grin? There are several issues. 1. The story is all of three days old. The investigation has just gotten underway. 2. The story in OP gives only one version of the events. They may well be accurate. But then again, they may not be. That’s why there will be an investigation. 3. Your obvious agenda lessens your credibility. If you want your arguments or outrage to be taken seriously, you might want to dial that back a little. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/64 "2014-01-10T18:16:47Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Cop walks away free with shit-eating grin? > > There are several issues. > > 1. The story is all of three days old. The investigation has just gotten underway. > > 2. The story in OP gives only one version of the events. They may well be accurate. But then again, they may not be. That’s why there will be an investigation. > > 3. Your obvious agenda lessens your credibility. If you want your arguments or outrage to be taken seriously, you might want to dial that back a little. He says right in the thread title that his outrage is recreational. So who are you to tell him his hobby is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/65 "2014-01-10T18:47:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And it is not a strawman either. And that wasn’t the accusation. The accusation was that **buddha\_david** was “setting up” a strawman. **buddha\_david** has already made pointed comments that anybody who even dares to defend the police in this matter must be an apologist. Weaseling out of that with an “if” is weak sauce. Basically this: > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Cop walks away free with shit-eating grin? > > There are several issues. > > 1. The story is all of three days old. The investigation has just gotten underway. > > 2. The story in OP gives only one version of the events. They may well be accurate. But then again, they may not be. That’s why there will be an investigation. > > 3. Your obvious agenda lessens your credibility. If you want your arguments or outrage to be taken seriously, you might want to dial that back a little. > [@Loach](#): > > So who are you to tell him his hobby is wrong? God? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/66 "2014-01-10T19:46:49Z")
What happened to the subway policeman who shot and killed a guy laying with his hands cuffed behind his back? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/67 "2014-01-10T20:19:47Z")
A promotion, I expect. Shooting somebody with your hands cuffed behind your back is tough. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/68 "2014-01-10T20:23:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > So who are you to tell him his hobby is wrong? That’s MY hobby. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/69 "2014-01-10T20:26:38Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > What straw man? Cop shoots a kid, \ You really need to stop saying that - the suspect who was shot was 18 years old - he was NOT a kid. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A promotion, I expect. Shooting somebody with your hands cuffed behind your back is tough. You’re awesome. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/70 "2014-01-10T20:29:21Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Maybe you could, maybe you couldn’t. You seemed alot more confident in your OP. You had the cops convicted of murder already. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/71 "2014-01-10T20:29:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A promotion, I expect. Shooting somebody with your hands cuffed behind your back is tough. I think he got de-frocked, or whatever they do to kick you out of the police force, but I don’t think he did any time. Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/72 "2014-01-10T20:32:15Z")
It’s another OUTRAGE post about something that happened where almost none of the facts are known yet. Were any of the cops non-white? That’s all that’s missing - a racial angle. Seriously, I’m sorry he died, and it does appear to be excessive force, but we can’t say yet. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/73 "2014-01-10T20:34:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You really need to stop saying that - the suspect who was shot was 18 years old - he was NOT a kid. Eh, I’ll cut him some slack on that. 18 years old may be legally an adult, but I often refer to people that age as “kids.” If the father’s description of his son being shot after being tased and while the son was being restrained is accurate, then this is a complete outrage and the officer responsible should face charges. I don’t think it’s clear yet that the father’s description is accurate, though. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/74 "2014-01-10T20:37:04Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > That’s MY hobby. > > 🙂 Fair enough. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/75 "2014-01-10T20:40:16Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant#Closing_arguments_and_verdict) is my friend. > [@Linked article](#): > > On November 5, 2010, Mehserle was sentenced to two years with double credit for time already served, reducing his term by 292 days for the 146 days he has already spent in jail.[124] The judge overturned the gun enhancement, which could have added an additional 3 to 10 years to the sentence.[125][126] He was released from prison at 12:01 am on June 13, 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/76 "2014-01-10T20:48:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I took his statement to apply to media, other LEOs and government officials. I was not aware the dope was so popular that media, other LEOs and government officials read the dope. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/77 "2014-01-10T20:51:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I was not aware the dope was so popular that media, other LEOs and government officials read the dope. I have it on good authority that the vice mayor of North Little Rock, AR, never makes any decision without consulting the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/78 "2014-01-10T23:37:01Z")
If that young adult wouldn’t have hurt anyone, why in hell did they feel the need to call the police anyway? Has that had any sort of actual answer yet? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/79 "2014-01-10T23:43:32Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > If that young adult wouldn’t have hurt anyone, why in hell did they feel the need to call the police anyway? Has that had any sort of actual answer yet? Perhaps they thought the police were t rained professionals who could subdue people without killing them. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/80 "2014-01-11T00:40:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree – I took issue with **Clothahump** ’s implication that only cops or former cops can criticize other cops. Heh. Like only other governors or former governors can criticize Gov. Christie! 🙂 (I’ve heard this argued more seriously in the abortion issue. “Men should not be allowed to hold any opinion on abortion.” Well, okay, no man can have first-hand knowledge of pregnancy – but we can have an informed opinion, by listening to women who do have that first-hand opinion.) First hand knowledge is good, but it isn’t where knowledge ends. In this specific case, I’d like to hear more from actual police officers to improve my second-hand knowledge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=5)